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	<title>Comments on: Are you better off than you were 2 years ago?</title>
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	<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/</link>
	<description>News &#38; events of AZ Democratis, with emphasis on Southern Arizona Democrats</description>
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		<title>By: toughteri</title>
		<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/#comment-1166</link>
		<dc:creator>toughteri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/?p=180#comment-1166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Obama is returned in November, your generation is screwed - ROYALLY!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Obama is returned in November, your generation is screwed &#8211; ROYALLY!</p>
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		<title>By: RichardU</title>
		<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/#comment-1165</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 23:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/?p=180#comment-1165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you trying to lower expectations for the country already? We currently have an 8.2% unemployment rate, but you imply it&#039;s 9%. We have 1.7% GDP growth, but you imply it is 1.5%.


And you can still look up the chart Obama and his team used to sell the stimulus that clearly shows what he promised would happen to unemployment. Unless you&#039;re saying showing people a chart and saying that is what will happen is not a promise, in which case I suppose nothing a politician says is considered a promise in your mind. You also seem to conveniently ignore all the other promises I mentioned since I guess even you have to admit they were broken.
Again, government spending is not guaranteed to stimulate an economy. Government spending only stimulates an economy if it is spent more effectively than it would otherwise be spent. Considering Obama&#039;s lousy record on that front, I don&#039;t think it would be wise to give him more money to spend on &quot;stimulus&quot; programs. You can easily look up the multiplier effect of the prior stimulus and see it was lower than just leaving the money where it was. Some components of the stimulus were even lower than a 1.0 multiplier. It&#039;s really hard to spend $1 and get less than $1 of economic activity as a result, but somehow the stimulus plan pulled it off.


It just seems like you are proposing Democrats are currently offering effective government, but all available evidence contradicts that point. Just because Democrats of the past had effective government does not mean Democrats of the present are offering the same choice. I wish they were since I actually liked Democrats of the past and the effective government they provided.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you trying to lower expectations for the country already? We currently have an 8.2% unemployment rate, but you imply it&#8217;s 9%. We have 1.7% GDP growth, but you imply it is 1.5%.</p>
<p>And you can still look up the chart Obama and his team used to sell the stimulus that clearly shows what he promised would happen to unemployment. Unless you&#8217;re saying showing people a chart and saying that is what will happen is not a promise, in which case I suppose nothing a politician says is considered a promise in your mind. You also seem to conveniently ignore all the other promises I mentioned since I guess even you have to admit they were broken.<br />
Again, government spending is not guaranteed to stimulate an economy. Government spending only stimulates an economy if it is spent more effectively than it would otherwise be spent. Considering Obama&#8217;s lousy record on that front, I don&#8217;t think it would be wise to give him more money to spend on &#8220;stimulus&#8221; programs. You can easily look up the multiplier effect of the prior stimulus and see it was lower than just leaving the money where it was. Some components of the stimulus were even lower than a 1.0 multiplier. It&#8217;s really hard to spend $1 and get less than $1 of economic activity as a result, but somehow the stimulus plan pulled it off.</p>
<p>It just seems like you are proposing Democrats are currently offering effective government, but all available evidence contradicts that point. Just because Democrats of the past had effective government does not mean Democrats of the present are offering the same choice. I wish they were since I actually liked Democrats of the past and the effective government they provided.</p>
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		<title>By: BajaDemocrats</title>
		<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/#comment-1163</link>
		<dc:creator>BajaDemocrats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 22:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/?p=180#comment-1163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Candidate Obama never promised unemployment would stay under 7%. GOP politicians frequently claim that in presenting his plan for the stimulus package President Obama &quot;promised&quot; it would keep unemployment under 8%.Politifact rebukes that claim, noting that Obama never used the word &quot;promise&quot; and never used the 8% figure. In fact, unemployment had already reached 8% by February 2009, when Obama had only been in office for weeks. 

We are never going balance the budget and reduce the deficit &amp; debt with 9% unemployment. Unemployment is not going to be reduced significantly with an economy growing at only 1.5% increase in GDP. We face a choice of austerity - spending cuts - which the Republicans want to couple with more tax cuts for the wealthy, which will prolong deficits coupled with a stagnant economy at best, or recession, with persistent high unemployment. Or we can spur the economy with targeted investments and bring down unemployment and reduce the deficit.

When President Clinton produced a budget surplus in 2000, the US was paying over 6% for a 10 year treasury note. This year, even with a nearly $16 Trillion debt and over $1 Trillion deficit, we are paying 1.82% for a 10 year Treasury note. Worldwide investors are voicing their confidence in America by buying up US Govt. debt in record amounts. It&#039;s never been cheaper to borrow, and we Americans need to voice our confidence in America by enduring a bit more deficit spending to kick start the economy and get it firing on all cylinders again. With everyone working again, paying taxes instead of applying for any assistance available, we can tackle the long term deficit and debt. I can live with a Simpson-Bowles - then.I&#039;ll never accept a Ryan Budget Plan that pretends the wealthy are the &quot;job creators&quot; and rewards them with yet more tax cuts. The real &quot;job creators&quot; is a prosperous, employed middle class spending money that business reacts to by expanding and hiring yet more people.  

And Democrats will never allow Social Security or Medicare to go bankrupt. Read this Read this AP article at Boston,com:
http://www.boston.com/business/personal-finance/2012/08/19/social-security-fixable-changes-politically-tough/2N8JicV1tXjPAn5dWqol3K/story.html
The tweaks needed to fix Social Security for the long term are so minor compared to the draconian measures the GOP wants to take. Social Security taxes are currently 12.4% on the first $110,100 in wages &amp; salaries, with workers paying half &amp; employers paying half. Make all wages &amp; salaries subject to the tax and it would eliminate 72% of the projected shortfall in the Trust Fund. If this had been done 2 years ago, it would have eliminated 99% of the shortfall. Or increase the payroll tax by 0.1 percentage point a year, until it reaches 14.4 percent in 20 years. This would eliminate 53% of the shortfall; if this had been done 2 years ago it would have reduced 73% of the shortfall. So many easy fixes, so little courage in our politicians. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Candidate Obama never promised unemployment would stay under 7%. GOP politicians frequently claim that in presenting his plan for the stimulus package President Obama &#8220;promised&#8221; it would keep unemployment under 8%.Politifact rebukes that claim, noting that Obama never used the word &#8220;promise&#8221; and never used the 8% figure. In fact, unemployment had already reached 8% by February 2009, when Obama had only been in office for weeks. </p>
<p>We are never going balance the budget and reduce the deficit &amp; debt with 9% unemployment. Unemployment is not going to be reduced significantly with an economy growing at only 1.5% increase in GDP. We face a choice of austerity &#8211; spending cuts &#8211; which the Republicans want to couple with more tax cuts for the wealthy, which will prolong deficits coupled with a stagnant economy at best, or recession, with persistent high unemployment. Or we can spur the economy with targeted investments and bring down unemployment and reduce the deficit.</p>
<p>When President Clinton produced a budget surplus in 2000, the US was paying over 6% for a 10 year treasury note. This year, even with a nearly $16 Trillion debt and over $1 Trillion deficit, we are paying 1.82% for a 10 year Treasury note. Worldwide investors are voicing their confidence in America by buying up US Govt. debt in record amounts. It&#8217;s never been cheaper to borrow, and we Americans need to voice our confidence in America by enduring a bit more deficit spending to kick start the economy and get it firing on all cylinders again. With everyone working again, paying taxes instead of applying for any assistance available, we can tackle the long term deficit and debt. I can live with a Simpson-Bowles &#8211; then.I&#8217;ll never accept a Ryan Budget Plan that pretends the wealthy are the &#8220;job creators&#8221; and rewards them with yet more tax cuts. The real &#8220;job creators&#8221; is a prosperous, employed middle class spending money that business reacts to by expanding and hiring yet more people.  </p>
<p>And Democrats will never allow Social Security or Medicare to go bankrupt. Read this Read this AP article at Boston,com:<br />
<a href="http://www.boston.com/business/personal-finance/2012/08/19/social-security-fixable-changes-politically-tough/2N8JicV1tXjPAn5dWqol3K/story.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.boston.com/business/personal-finance/2012/08/19/social-security-fixable-changes-politically-tough/2N8JicV1tXjPAn5dWqol3K/story.html</a><br />
The tweaks needed to fix Social Security for the long term are so minor compared to the draconian measures the GOP wants to take. Social Security taxes are currently 12.4% on the first $110,100 in wages &amp; salaries, with workers paying half &amp; employers paying half. Make all wages &amp; salaries subject to the tax and it would eliminate 72% of the projected shortfall in the Trust Fund. If this had been done 2 years ago, it would have eliminated 99% of the shortfall. Or increase the payroll tax by 0.1 percentage point a year, until it reaches 14.4 percent in 20 years. This would eliminate 53% of the shortfall; if this had been done 2 years ago it would have reduced 73% of the shortfall. So many easy fixes, so little courage in our politicians. </p>
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		<title>By: RichardU</title>
		<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/#comment-1162</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 21:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/?p=180#comment-1162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I opposed GWB&#039;s stimulus. I actually supported Democrats up to and including 2008, but I got severely burned by Obama&#039;s promises... promises like no individual mandate, cutting deficits in half, unemployment staying under 7%, ending Too Big To Fail, etc. I now actively oppose Democrats because the solutions they offer are even worse than Republican solutions. The Democratic solution to Medicare: let it go bankrupt instead of admitting we need to cut it back. The Democratic solution to Social Security: let it go bankrupt. The Democratic solution to out of control deficit spending: spend even more.


The problem with government stimulus is that the money comes from somewhere. If government borrows, it comes out of other investments so those investors can buy US debt instead. If government taxes to pay for the spending, it comes out of the pockets of taxpayers. To overcome that effect of taking money away from something else, government has to spend it more wisely. In Clinton&#039;s term, government did spend wisely enough to help things. But since then, government from both sides of the aisle has spent money incredibly poorly. As a result, every penny of stimulus from Bush and Obama has made our economy worse rather than better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I opposed GWB&#8217;s stimulus. I actually supported Democrats up to and including 2008, but I got severely burned by Obama&#8217;s promises&#8230; promises like no individual mandate, cutting deficits in half, unemployment staying under 7%, ending Too Big To Fail, etc. I now actively oppose Democrats because the solutions they offer are even worse than Republican solutions. The Democratic solution to Medicare: let it go bankrupt instead of admitting we need to cut it back. The Democratic solution to Social Security: let it go bankrupt. The Democratic solution to out of control deficit spending: spend even more.</p>
<p>The problem with government stimulus is that the money comes from somewhere. If government borrows, it comes out of other investments so those investors can buy US debt instead. If government taxes to pay for the spending, it comes out of the pockets of taxpayers. To overcome that effect of taking money away from something else, government has to spend it more wisely. In Clinton&#8217;s term, government did spend wisely enough to help things. But since then, government from both sides of the aisle has spent money incredibly poorly. As a result, every penny of stimulus from Bush and Obama has made our economy worse rather than better.</p>
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		<title>By: BajaDemocrats</title>
		<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/#comment-1161</link>
		<dc:creator>BajaDemocrats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/?p=180#comment-1161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t like spending money we don&#039;t have for government stimulus to get the economy going again? Well, then what are thoughts on when President GW Bush was calling for a deficit spending on a stimulus to help combat the comparatively mild 2001-2002 recession? Here&#039;s what Congressman Paul Ryan had to say about stimulus back then, urging his fellow Republicans to support it:

&quot;We&#039;ve got to get their engine of economic growth growing again because we now know because of the recession we don&#039;t have the revenues we wanted to. We&#039;ve got to get Americans back to work, then the surpluses come back, then the jobs come back, That is the constructive answer we&#039;re trying to accomplish here. Yes, on a bipartisan basis. I urge members to drop the demo demogogury and get people back to work.&quot;
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/up-with-chris-hayes/48716561

I think the thing that angers me the most about Republican politicians is that they are so hypocritical. They know and understand that deficits and stimulus are sometimes necessary to even out the ups &amp; downs of economic cycles. They&#039;re just against it when a Democrat is President because they care more about a Democratic President not being successful than they care about the welfare of the country. Look how fast the Republicans&#039; demands for a balanced budget and an end to deficit spending under President Clinton went out the window the day GW Bush took his oath of office. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t like spending money we don&#8217;t have for government stimulus to get the economy going again? Well, then what are thoughts on when President GW Bush was calling for a deficit spending on a stimulus to help combat the comparatively mild 2001-2002 recession? Here&#8217;s what Congressman Paul Ryan had to say about stimulus back then, urging his fellow Republicans to support it:</p>
<p>&#8220;We&#8217;ve got to get their engine of economic growth growing again because we now know because of the recession we don&#8217;t have the revenues we wanted to. We&#8217;ve got to get Americans back to work, then the surpluses come back, then the jobs come back, That is the constructive answer we&#8217;re trying to accomplish here. Yes, on a bipartisan basis. I urge members to drop the demo demogogury and get people back to work.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://video.msnbc.msn.com/up-with-chris-hayes/48716561" rel="nofollow">http://video.msnbc.msn.com/up-with-chris-hayes/48716561</a></p>
<p>I think the thing that angers me the most about Republican politicians is that they are so hypocritical. They know and understand that deficits and stimulus are sometimes necessary to even out the ups &amp; downs of economic cycles. They&#8217;re just against it when a Democrat is President because they care more about a Democratic President not being successful than they care about the welfare of the country. Look how fast the Republicans&#8217; demands for a balanced budget and an end to deficit spending under President Clinton went out the window the day GW Bush took his oath of office. </p>
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		<title>By: RichardU</title>
		<link>http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/08/19/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-2-years-ago/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/?p=180#comment-1159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do believe I am better off than I was two years ago. Prior to the 2010 elections, we had a government telling us what we had to buy and from whom... for our own good, of course. Since then, I don&#039;t seem to have been told anything else I&#039;ll now be forced to buy. That&#039;s a big plus. We haven&#039;t promised to spend trillions more dollars we don&#039;t have on more stimulus that somehow is so bad it makes things worse than what we were told would happen without it. We haven&#039;t rewarded incompetence at companies by providing them huge bailouts. And we&#039;ve even had Simpson-Bowles and Paul Ryan come up with plans that address our long-term fiscal problems. Both plans share a common trait that they suck, but I suppose every plan dealing with $16 trillion of debt will share that trait.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe I am better off than I was two years ago. Prior to the 2010 elections, we had a government telling us what we had to buy and from whom&#8230; for our own good, of course. Since then, I don&#8217;t seem to have been told anything else I&#8217;ll now be forced to buy. That&#8217;s a big plus. We haven&#8217;t promised to spend trillions more dollars we don&#8217;t have on more stimulus that somehow is so bad it makes things worse than what we were told would happen without it. We haven&#8217;t rewarded incompetence at companies by providing them huge bailouts. And we&#8217;ve even had Simpson-Bowles and Paul Ryan come up with plans that address our long-term fiscal problems. Both plans share a common trait that they suck, but I suppose every plan dealing with $16 trillion of debt will share that trait.</p>
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