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Which schools should Pac-10 add if it expands

by on Feb. 09, 2010, under Sports

This doesn’t have anything to do with government or politics, but  . . .

The Star is reporting that the Pac-10 commissioner is considering expanding the conference. I’ve thought for years that it made sense to expand the conference for football – the payoff would be enormous – but that it didn’t make much sense for the other sports, especially basketball.

And while it might make sense for the Pac-10 to expand, it might remain wishful thinking if it doesn’t make sense, or cents, for the new schools.

The new schools would need to be from the far West (west of the Continental Divide or pretty darn close to the east of it), and they would need to have strong athletic programs, both men and women, or at least be good in more than one men’s sport.

Some prospects:

BYU – good in multiple sports, especially football and basketball. But they don’t play on Sunday, so it creates a scheduling headache.

Utah – used to be weak in everything but has developed into a strong mid-major in the past decade in many sports, especially football. Adding Utah and BYU would bring a natural (and existing) rivalry into the conference.

Colorado – Good football team. Not much else. And why would they want to leave the Big-12?

UNLV – Still living in the Jerry Tarkanian afterglow, but the higher profile of the Pac-10 could make UNLV a power in multiple sports. And it’s Vegas, baby.

San Diego State – The home of Marshall Faulk and, um, uh . . . . Marshall Faulk. Should be a West Coast power school. Not sure why it isn’t. Maybe the Pac-10 will give it the cred to keep all that incredible San Diego talent home instead of at USC (Wasn’t some kid named Reggie Bush from the 619?)

Boise State – Just a football team, nothing else.

Fresno State – See Boise State above.

San Jose State – Looked like they might become a player in multiple sports back in the ’90s but they faded in the past decade. Lots of potential, though, including becoming a Stanford rival (same neighborhood).

Gonzaga – Just a basketball team, nothing else (and who wants to make two trips a year to the Palouse? Going to Wazzu is enough)

Wyoming – Though there are more cows than people in Wyoming, the Cowboys have been killin’ it lately in football, basketball.

New Mexico – A comer. And currently ranked 28th in the Learfiled Sport Cup (formerly the Sears Cup) standings. Strong women’s sports teams, not that there is any money to be made with women’s teams.

UC Santa Cruz – they suck at everything, but it’d be fun to write “Wildcats kill Banana Slugs” in a headline a couple three times a year.


  • http://spartanblitz.com SpartanBlitz.com

    I’d love to see San Jose State in the Pac 10, but unfortunately, I don’t think that will ever happen. I do think they’d be a great fit in the Mountain West and thus adding a natural rival for San Diego State.

  • Rick

    There is absolutely no financial benefit for all of the current 10 teams so spending time discussing an unlikely unanimous vote by the 10 schools (which is required to expand the conference) is simply an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time.
    The Pac-10 won’t expand.  You can take it to the bank.

  • Carolyn Classen

    How far west can the Pac-10 go?  What about my alma mater, the University of Hawaii at Manoa Warriors?

  • Kevin

    The financial benefit comes when it’s time for the Pac to negotiate a new TV deal in a couple of years. If they can offer two new media markets and a championship game, it will definitely be more compelling to broadcasters. Colorado and Utah seem the most likely prospects – BYU will simply never get an invite (it’s a shame, because the Holy War would make a compelling all-Pac game), and none of the other MWC or WAC schools are balanced enough between academics and overall athletic prowess. Sure Boise State is the reigning Pac-10 wrestling champ, but they aren’t exactly playing against all 10 core schools there either…

  • joey g

    Utah is a great school and have more tradition than this article gives credit for.  I know TCU isn’t as far West as would be preferred but I think that would be a nice addition.  I’m sure coaches would love it for recruiting, having more exposure in Texas.  So if it were to happen, I’d vote Utah and Colorado or TCU and Baylor (for the academics).  But I’m with Rick, I don’ think it will happen.  There will never be an equivalent to the SEC out West, there is just too much to do and not enough fan commitment (not saying that is good or bad).  That said, the East Coast bias will never be trumped and that is more the reason we haven’t had two teams in BCS games for a while, not because we don’t have a championship game or we don’t have 12 teams.

  • mark

    What everyone constantly forgets is that the Pac-10 considers itself an academic as well as athletic conference.  They are not going to invite a school into the conference unless they have strong research and graduate programs. They have clearly stated that many times.  BYU is not getting in for that reason alone — it is a good school, but not strong in graduate programs or research funding.  Neither are any more state school in California for the same reasons.  Or Boise State, or UNLV.  Colorado would fit, but why would they want to, and why would the Pac-10 want them except for the Denver TV market.  They don’t have all the athletic programs that pac-10 schools have, either and I wonder if they would care enough to add them.
    Maybe expansion happens, but it’s as much about the academic fit as it is about tv markets and athletic programs.  I hope it doesn’t happen.  Out west we have lives and, although we care deeply out our teams, we aren’t willing to crawl in the mud like Florida State, or Tenn. has done just to get a few more wins.  Or, at least I hope not.

  • kevinp

    Utah and BYU are the only schools that really fit the current PAC-10 model.
    They are natural rivals, and geographically linked.
    The only others would be UNLV and Nevada, but they are less desireable for the reasons already mentioned.

  • eh

    None

  • Not on your life

    Over the last decade the Mountain West has been busy making a name for itself. It has had three BCS appearances (despite BCS rules designed to make it extremely difficult to get in) and has won more than its fair share of football and basketball games against the PAC-10. It has three teams in the basketball Top 25, whereas the PAC-10 has ZERO. After all this work, why would any of the Mountain West schools even consider joining a conference that seems to be on the decline. I think the discussion should be, which schools from the PAC-10 will soon consider leaving for the Mountain West.

  • Bob

    One thing that may work in the Pac-10′s favor is the Big 10 expansion. If they go after the Big 12, as reports indicate they are looking that way, then there maybe a bigger prize than Colorado to pick.
    If results of the Big 10 pick goes through Nebraska/Oklahoma, would Texas and Texas A&M consider jumping a sinking Big 12 ship and bolt for the Pac 10? Would the Pac 10 consider 14 teams instead of 12? I have never been a Pac 10 expansion fan. But, with the likes of the SEC, ACC and Big 10 going to 12(+) teams, the Pac needs to keep up, or possibly become broken up.

  • Jimbeau

    Why not Hawai’i and BYU?  They have a natural rivalry.

  • Tom

    No one mentioned the Air Force Academy and they should.  First lets eliminate the above.   According to insiders close to Larry Scott, Tim Weiberg was brought on board as COO and Deputy Commissioner of the Pac-10 specifically for his strong experience as having been the former Big 12.  In Weiberg was bold and confident in bringing on board such an equally competent right hand man to support him.  This is not all about money as most claim, rather it’s about financial survival, academics and perception.  The Pac-10 is “The Conference of Champions.  If you are a member that is your conference motto.  Despite the nonsense about the Latter-Day Saints, Utah has nearly an equal amount of Mormons.  This is no more than political fodder to stir up controversy.  BYU and Utah offer great potential to the Pac-10.  
         Many insiders discount the idea that only one the two teams is necessary to secure the Salt Lake City/Provo television market for TV contractual reasons and the financial support it brings.  The reason is simple, the Pac-10 is not just looking at a two-team expansion rather they are seriously strategizing a four-team blitz that includes the two aforementioned teams as well as Colorado and Air Force. 
         For academic reasons the Pac-10 will not consider Hawaii, San Jose State, San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Utah State or Boise State.  They serve their communities well and despite accusations of insider conference snobbery they just don’t measure up academically and historically with the other traditional Pac-10 schools. 
        At a recent family social event someone asked about Colorado State and Colorado but that idea was immediatley extinguised.  State will never measure up to the Pac-10.  Colorado would be free to include Colorado State on its out of conference schedule every year much as Notre Dame is part of USC’s legacy and history.  Air Force, meanwhile is a natual rival in the state for Colorado.   As a military academy it may not seem to offer a specific local TV market rather it does offer prolific national following for any and all who served in the Air Force ranks.  
      The Denver and Salt Lake City/Provo markets would be secured.  Those who choose geographical distance lose this one as both Colorado locations are closer to Seattle than either Arizona or Arizona State.  The conference would offer two solid seven-team divisions.  Historically the four California schools (USC, Stanford, Cal and UCLA) provide somewhat of an anchor for the conference.  In private conversation each team would play its divisional competition each year equating to six games.  In addition, each team would still secure three non-conference games annually leaving 3 games left to play.  Currently teams typically play a twelve game schedule with occasional thirteen game schdules. 
          The possibilities and potential for the conference are profound from a financail perspective.  As far as diversification, which is very important as far as perceptions, it would be unmatched nationally yet it would secure the highest academic standings adding additional prestige to the conference.  For a nation that recently elected an African-American President no one thinks BYU is a challenging addition.  If it was, it would put our country’s social back by decades. 
         You heard it here first:  Utah, BYU, Colorado and Air Force. 
    TCU would most likely take Colorado’s place in the Big 12, Air Force is independent anyway casuing no harm or conflict.  Arguably it leaves the Mountain West crushed.  However, there really is no problem here as TCU would certainly replace Colorado in the Big12 leaving five schools in the Mountain West Conference to incorporate into the WAC conference which would also increase to 14 teams thereby insuring a BCS birth.  
         Away from insider talk I have not heard any word on how the two divisions would, should or could look like.  Herein, I offer my own ideas for two divisions.  They would be split into a North and South Division.  The North would be comprised of Oregon and Oregon State, Wahington and Washington State, BYU, Cal and Stanford.  The South Division would be comprised of USC, UCLA, Arizona and Arizona State, Utah, Colorado and Air Force.  Some traditionalists might have issues with USC not playing Cal and Stanford each year but they would play on a rotating basis.  If a USC-Stanford or USC-Cal or for that matter UCLA-Cal or UCLA-Stanford comes between closing a deal or not I’m confident the conference and individual institutions would work it out amenably.  From my perspective I point to the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry that was such a prolific national rivalry.  Those two rivals now play on the national fottball scene home and away for two years and then don’t play for two subsequent.  Who would have thought that could ever be possible. 
          The 14-team concept is in the works.  It may not happen but there are serious conversaqtions taking place at the highest level of the institutions involved. 

  • Mark Brown

    If Colorado isn’t interested, the Utah and Nevada would be the best fit academically, geographically, and market (Nevada has a huge Sacramento alumni chapter) & the Sac Bee covers Wolf Pack sports.

  • Richard

    Stop the cut and paste from every other similar publication and get the facts right. Boise State is NOT just a football team.
    They have exceptional gymnastics and track teams; have won conference titles in both Men’s and Women’s basketball within the past few years, a top 20 tennis team, and their wrestling team is not only a top 10 team but is ALREADY IN the PAC-10! Which it is the reigning champion of by the way as they blew away the previous points record in the PAC tourney.
    Is football the one you hear about? Sure, it’s the money sport. But they are also loaded with other great sports programs.
     

  • Webster

    Boise’s academic’s suck and it’s not even debatable. You also play and have wins against inferior competition and no one takes you seriously for those reasons alone. You have wins against a few good teams with cupcakes sanwiched in between. Also, if you were ever admitted(sorry, but this will never ever happen), the academic standard would be raised and that would eliminate a huge chunk of your recruits and then you would cease to win anything and would become a huge liability to the conference.

  • Don

    I think I just got a headache…
    “BYU – good in multiple sports, especially football and basketball. But they don’t play on Sunday, so it creates a scheduling headache.”
    Byu basketball just recently became “especially good”, and football has been good but nothing to really write home about out of conference.
    “Utah – used to be weak in everything but has developed into a strong mid-major in the past decade in many sports, especially football. Adding Utah and BYU would bring a natural (and existing) rivalry into the conference.”
    I guess no one paid attention to Utah basketball which has had a national presence for quite some time.  Not to mention the olympic sports such as skiing, gymnastics, etc (okay, so no one pays close attention to the olypmic sports, but evidently the pac10 does).
    “Colorado – Good football team. Not much else. And why would they want to leave the Big-12?”
    Well, technically their football team hasn’t been good in quite some time, and there are numerous reasons for them to leave not the least of which is $$.

  • BYU DUDE

    Cougars and Utah should be the two. Just think how much fun you will have making fun of the Cougs at the  games.

  • BYU DUDE

    Money wise it makes sense to include BYU because they can put an extra 10,000 to 20,000 thousand additional fan’s in seats with fact’s I was at the BYU vs Arizona game and saw it for my self but what about other games like UCLA.

    Take, for instance, the UCLA game in 2007. To get an accurate picture of what BYU did for that game, you need to measure against other UCLA home games that occurred prior to the start of the academic year.

    What BYU did for that game was fantastic.

    Look at UCLA’s other home openers, which nearly always come prior to school being in session:

    2004 vs. Oklahoma State – Attendance 48,701
    2005 vs. Rice – 44,808; the next week against OKLAHOMA at home – 56,522
    2006 vs. Utah – 59,709 (note the extra 13,000 bump we gave UCLA for its home opener vs the utes)
    2007 vs. BYU – 72,986
    2008 vs. Tennessee (TENNESSEE!) – 68,546                   (Tennessee was ranked #3) 
    2009 vs. SDSU – 55,761

  • Pac10

    I always hear that SDSU will never be allowed because of academics.  That makes absolutely no sense.  Last year my daughter was accepted to Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona , Arizona State.  She also applied to a number of Cal State schools and was accepted into all of them except SDSU.  She had a 3.6 and a 1210 out of 1600 on the math and english portion.  That argument does not fly any more.

  • TORRERO

    USD AND SAN DIEGO STATE

  • Jim

    Add six: Colorado, Utah, Texas, Texas A & M, Houston and Texas Tech and have four “quads”.

    USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal
    UT, A & M, TT, UH
    OSY, OR, WSU, WA
    AZ, ASU, UTAH, CO

    Play your quad and two of the other teams in each of the other quads for nine games total. Everyone make a trip to each quad and has a team from that quad visit its quad every year, Hold down travel costs.
    Evry one plays in LA 2 times in four years and in Texas 2 times in four years.

  • Gabriel moreno