Tucson Citizen.com
Caveat Lector - Politics, Government and the Free Press – by Mark B. Evans

Key part of SB 1070 not likely to be a law for long

by on Apr. 23, 2010, under Politics

Gov. Brewer in her SB 1070 signing speech went to great lengths to allay fears that the bill will force Arizona police agencies to racially profile.

She said she has asked the Arizona Police Officer Standards and Training Board to review the law and develop the training standards for officers to enforce the law.

The primary standard that must be developed is the key to the whole bill: What constitutes “reasonable suspicion” that someone is in the country illegally.

I’ve been thinking about that all day and I’m stumped.

Among the legal concerns that officers will be faced with in trying to enforce this law are:

• 14th Amendment’s requirement of equal protection under the law. No person  can be treated differently by the law than another, irrespective of their citizenship status. This is the bedrock of the prohibition on racial profiling. You must apply the law equally to everyone.

• 5th Amendment protection from self-incrimination and requirement of due process. This and the 6th Amendment’s right to counsel are the basis of the Miranda law. You don’t have to tell a cop anything.

• Presumption of innocence. It’s the state’s job to prove you violated a law not your duty to prove you didn’t. Federal immigration laws get around this because the Supreme Court has said the government has the right to regulate immigration. But this is a state law that will require people to prove they haven’t violated the state law by being in the country illegally.

• Proof of citizenship. The 14th Amendment and 1798 Naturalization Act establishes who is a citizen of the United States. Neither law, nor any other federal law requires any citizen to carry proof of citizenship.

These all raise enormous difficulties for a police officer in Arizona.

Imagine the following scenario:

A Tucson police officer pulls over a white person driving alone for a cracked windshield. By what standard or metric will the officer use to determine “reasonable suspicion” that the white person in the vehicle is in the country illegally?

You can’t tell by just looking. Right? So there must be some other behavior that an officer must cue on in order to develop a reasonable suspicion. What would that be? Nervousness? Most people are nervous when they’re pulled over. Not in possession of a driver’s license? Thousands of citizens are stopped every year and cited for driving without a license.

There is no way to determine citizenship status by just looking at someone. So the officer must ask. And, in order not to run afoul of the equal protection clause, police will have to ask everyone.

So now what if our white driver, who does not speak with a foreign accent, refuses to answer the question? What will the officer do? The law says an Arizona’s driver’s license or state-issued ID card suffice as proof of citizenship. But what if the driver doesn’t have a driver’s license in his or her possession?

Can you imagine any scenario in which the officer would develop a “reasonable suspicion” that the white driver is in the country illegally? I can’t (if this was Vermont, I could).

Now change the white driver to a Hispanic driver. Is refusing to answer the question “reasonable suspicion?” Or is failure to have a driver’s license?

In a state with several hundred thousand illegal immigrants entering it every year, and several hundred thousand more living here, a reasonable person would have to argue that it is “reasonable suspicion.” But it’s reasonable suspicion based on race and that’s just not Constitutionally viable.

If the officer arrests the unlicensed Hispanic driver based on that failure to answer the citizenship question and being unlicensed (which is a civil offense that doesn’t require arrest as long as the person signs a promise to appear) under this law the city, county or state could conceivably hold that person until citizenship or legal immigrant status is proved. That flies in the face of presumption of innocence.

I can’t see how this portion of the law can possibly be equitably enforced. As I’ve stated, it has enormous 4th, 5th and 14th Amendment problems, as well as a near repudiation of presumption of innocence, which has been part of English and American common law for at least 200 years.

The only way to make it equitable is to ask everyone their citizenship status. But citizens are under no obligation to tell the police anything or to carry any proof of their citizenship.

The police can be sued if they fail to enforce the law but if they start rounding up citizens who refuse to provide proof of their citizenship, they’ll get sued for that too (though the law protects officers who wrongly arrest citizens or those in the country legally).

This portion of the law is a legal train wreck and won’t stand.

Other portions of the law, such as making it a crime to knowingly transport illegal immigrants or to hire anyone, a citizen or otherwise, on the side of a road, will likely stand.

The crime of being in Arizona without the legal right to be in the United States is likely to be one of the shortest-lived laws ever enacted in the state.

For more on what else the law does, read the House’s Fact Sheet:

SB 1070 makes changes to laws relating to the enforcement on immigration laws, failure to carry an alien registration document, day laborers, harboring or transporting illegal aliens and employer sanctions.

History

8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) requires Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to respond to inquiries by federal, state, or local government agencies seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.

Laws 2007, Ch. 279 enacted the Legal Arizona Workers Act (Act).  The Act: expands aggravated taking the identity of another person or entity to include the intent to obtain employment; prohibits an employer from intentionally employing an unauthorized alien or knowingly employing an unauthorized alien; requires the Attorney General (AG) or county attorney to investigate complaints and classifies filing a false and frivolous complaint as a class 3 misdemeanor; provides for license suspension for the first violation; requires license revocation on a second violation during a probationary period; and after December 31, 2007, requires every employer to utilize E-Verify to verify employment eligibility.  Laws 2008, Chapter 152 further amended the Act.

Provisions

Enforcement of Immigration Law

  • Prohibits law enforcement officials and law enforcement agencies of this state or counties, municipalities and political subdivisions from restricting or limiting the enforcement of the federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
  • Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.
  • Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.
  • Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.
  • Specifies that a person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides any of the following:

Ø        A valid Arizona driver license.

Ø        A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

Ø        A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

Ø        A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.

  • Requires that if a person is convicted of any state or local law, on discharge from imprisonment or on the assessment of any monetary obligation imposed, ICE or U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) must be immediately notified.
  • Authorizes a law enforcement agency to securely transport an unlawfully present alien to a federal facility.
  • Requires a law enforcement agency to obtain judicial authorization before securely transporting an unlawfully present alien to a point of transfer that is outside of Arizona.
  • Prohibits, except as provided in federal law, officials and agencies of counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions from being prevented or restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining information relating to the immigration status, of any individual or exchanging that information with another governmental entity for the following official purposes:

Ø        Determination of eligibility for any public benefit, service or license.

Ø        Verification of any claim of legal domicile if legal domicile is required by law or judicial order.

Ø        If the person is an alien, determination of the person’s compliance with federal registration laws.

Ø        Pursuant to federal laws regarding communication between government agencies and federal immigration agencies.

  • Stipulates that these provisions does not implement, authorize or establish and cannot be construed to implement authorize or establish the REAL ID Act of 2005, including the use of Radio Frequency Identification (RFID).
  • Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
  • Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.
  • States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.
  • Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.
  • Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.
  • Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.

Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document

  • Specifies that in addition to any violation of federal law, a person is guilty of willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document if the person is in violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1304(e) or 1306(a).
  • Stipulates that the immigration status may be determined by:

Ø        A law enforcement officer who is authorized by the federal government to verify or ascertain an alien’s immigration status.

Ø        ICE or CBP pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c).

  • Prevents a person convicted of the new offense from being eligible for suspension of sentence, probation, pardon, commutation of sentence, or release from confinement on any basis except for as authorized by the Director of the Arizona Department of Correction until the sentence imposed has been served or the person is eligible for release due to early release credits.
  • Requires the court to order the person to pay jail costs and an additional assessment of:

Ø        At least $500 for a first offense.

Ø        Twice the amount the person was ordered to pay for the first offense if this is the second or subsequent offense.

  • States that the court will collect the assessments and transmit the collected monies to the Department of Public Safety for deposit in a special sub-account of the account established for GIITEM.
  • Stipulates that monies in the sub-account are subject to legislative appropriation for distribution for gang and immigration enforcement and for county jail costs relating to illegal immigration.
  • Stipulates that any record that relates to the immigration status of a person is admissible in any court without further foundation or testimony from a custodian of records if the record is certified as authentic by the government agency responsible for maintaining the record.
  • Makes a first offense a class 1 misdemeanor.
  • Increases the penalty to a class 3 felony if the person commits the offense while in possession of:

Ø        A dangerous drug (A.R.S. § 13-3401).

Ø        Precursor chemicals used to manufacture methamphetamine (A.R.S. § 13-3404.01).

Ø        A deadly weapon (A.R.S. § 13-3101).

Ø        A dangerous instrument (A.R.S. § 13-105).

Ø        Property used for committing an act of terrorism (A.R.S. § 13-2308.01).

  • Makes violations a class 4 felony if either:

Ø        It is a second or subsequent violation.

Ø        Within 60 days, the person has been removed from the U.S. either under 8 U.S.C. § 1229a or 8 U.S.C. § 1229c.

Unlawfully Picking up Passengers for Work

  • Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway, or highway to attempt to hire or hire and pick up passengers for work at a different location, if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic.
  • Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for a person to enter a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway or highway in order to be hired by an occupant of the motor vehicle and to be transported to work at a different location, if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic.
  • Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for a person who is unlawfully present who is an unauthorized alien to knowingly apply for work, solicit work in a public place or perform work as an employee or independent contractor.
  • Defines solicit and unauthorized alien.

Unlawfully Transporting or Harboring Unlawful Aliens

  • Stipulates that it is unlawful for a person who is in violation of a criminal offense to:

Ø        Transport or move an alien in a means of transportation, or attempt to do so, if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.

Ø        Conceal, harbor or shield an alien, or attempt to, if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.

Ø        Encourage or induce an alien to come to this state if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that doing so would be a violation of law.

  • Specifies that a means of transportation used in a violation of these provisions is subject to mandatory vehicle immobilization or impoundment.
  • Specifies that these provisions do not apply to a Child Protective Services worker acting in the worker’s official capacity or a person who is acting in the capacity of a first responder, an ambulance attendant or an emergency medial technician and is transporting or moving an alien in relation to emergency medial services.
  • Stipulates that violators are guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor and subject to a fine of at least $1,000.  However, a violation involving 10 or more illegal aliens is a class 6 felony and subject to a fine of at least $1,000 for each alien involved.
  • Requires a peace officer to immobilize or impound a person’s vehicle if the officer determines either that:

Ø        In furtherance of the illegal presence of an alien and in violation of a criminal offense, the person is transporting or moving, or attempting to do so in a vehicle if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.

Ø        The person is concealing, harboring or shielding an alien in this state, or attempting to do so in a vehicle if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.

Employer Sanctions

  • Provides employers with the affirmative defense that they were entrapped, but they must admit the substantial elements of the violation.
  • Stipulates that the employer has the burden of proof proving the following by a preponderance of the evidence:

Ø        The idea of committing the violation started with the officer or their agents.

Ø        The officers or their agents urged and induced the employer to commit the violation.

Ø        The employer was not predisposed to commit the violation before the law enforcement officer or agents urged and induced the employer to do so.

  • Stipulates that an employer is not entrapped if the employer was predisposed to violate the law and law enforcement merely provided the employer with the opportunity.  Additionally, it is not entrapment for law enforcement to use a ruse or to conceal their identity.
  • Requires employers to keep a record of the employment verification from E-verify for the duration of an employee’s employment, or three years, whichever is longer.

Miscellaneous

  • Authorizes peace officers, in the enforcement of human smuggling laws, to lawfully stop a person if they have reasonable suspicion to believe the person is in violation of any civil traffic law.
  • Authorizes a peace officer to arrest a person without a warrant if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.
  • Establishes the GIITEM fund (fund) and directs monies collected from penalties resulting from policies limiting the enforcement of federal immigration law to the fund.
  • Requires the Arizona Department of Public Safety to administer the fund, which is subject to legislative appropriation and is to be used for gang and immigration enforcement and for county jail reimbursement for costs relating to illegal immigration.
  • Contains intent and severability, implementation and construction clauses.
  • Specifies that this act may be cited as the “Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act.”
  • Makes technical and conforming changes.


  • Machia

    Pathetic how this president is not doing anything, now states are doing their own laws, time to crackdown, enough already, we simply cant let out country turn into Mexico and illegal-land, BRAVO AZ!

    • jax

      Dumb ASS! Learn your history…MEXICANOS deserve to live here…UH, this state was once part of MEXICO>>>BABOSA…

      • Todd

        Maybe you should learn your history too jax. Mexico was not the original owners of this land either. They took it from someone who took it from someone else. Mexicanos deserve to live here? Mexicanos dont “deserve” anything. Our soldiers deserve something. Our citizens deserve something. To say a group of people deserve this or that is going against the exact thing that you are trying to argue against. If they would have done it the right way the first time, they wouldnt have to worry about it. If I sneak into Mexico, I will be thrown in jail and I would deserve it! If Mexico isnt so bad and you’re so proud of it, go live there.

        • jax

          OK Todd, so since you claim to know everything. What is the right way? …LOL!  The only people who are going to loose in the long run are the “citizens”…Who’s going to build them their multi-million homes,take care of their kids, clean there homes? Oh wait, maybe all those citizens that collect welfare and smoke crack all day..Sure DUDE!… Also, no need to try to sneak into Mexico dude, your all ready here!!!!!! SMILE!!!!!

          • Seamus

            Jax,
            The land on which you stand was only part of Mexico for about 33 years, prior to that it was Spanish territory, and before that it was home to a few Indian tribes. It is NOW part of the United States of America and has been for over a century. So, your argument is with out base, citizens of the United States are the ONLY ones have a legal right to be here. To respond to the question regarding who would do all the work, there are plenty of Americans who are willing and ready. We were just fine before they invaded and we’ll be better off when they go back home.
            -A 5th generation Arizonan

            • richard

              Hey jax, a few tribes???? learn your history. Columbus did not discover America….it was already inhabited by millions of native americans. native americans are the only ones who have a right to be here.  A 100oth generation true American.  
              If so many Americans are ready to do those kinds of jobs, ask yourself this question. Would you be comfortable having your children do them kind of jobs?

      • bj

        the operative word in your statement is “once” dumb ass

    • Rick013

      What surprises me is that this new law mirrors existing federal law  which our own federal government seems unable to enforce, more realistically unwilling to do so. Go figure. Or the dims want the illegals for their  vote in elections.  Seems a fair question, especially when relating to dim elections in Arizona. 

  • Beast

    Mark, you are a buffoon.
    State officials enforce Federal Laws all the time.  But that doesn’t matter now, by making it a state law.  Also, cops have computers tied into DMV databases in their cars, they can check the information provided even if someone doesn’t possess their ID on them when asked.  Any and all the amendments you mentioned are applicable to all people.  ALL drivers are asked for a license if they are pulled over for a traffic violation, also proof of insurance and registration.  If you cannot provide that, that could easily be reasonable suspicion, and that will hold up in court as well.

    Stop making excuses, enforce the laws, only criminals will cry about it.

  • Ashley

    HANK YOU GOV. JAN BREWER !!!!
    The only people that have a problem with the bill is Hispanic’s…if I were using up Mexico’s tax payer’s money and getting benefits-living and working there illegally and they finally realized that me being there without being legal was illegal and I had to become a legal citizen sure I’d be mad too but at least I would understand that I shouldn’t of  been in the country illegally in the first place and wouldn’t be protesting the bill. Shouldn’t you have a permit/license if you are driving? Same thing. If this was going on in Mexico there citizens would be happy that the bill was passed to but they have had laws already in place for a long time America is far behind. This will also be helping to stop the terrorist problem will it not? Stop trying to pull the racist card American’s are so racially mixed who cares. No other country just lets you in illegally and pays you for it, why should this country be any different? It isn’t safe and it will save us money, do you research.
    Obama protested it because he doesn’t want to lose Hispanic votes when he runs again, among other selfish reasons that would take to long to explain that have to do with so called higher people then himself.
    This will help, I promise you.
    THANK YOU AGAIN GOV. JAN BREWER!

    • jax

      ONE WORD FOR YOU…”IGNORANT”…

      • brenda

        i think that its a stupid law. all people should be equal whatever race u are..if you are  working and paying taxes then whats theproblem..btw i am white but i am not a racist..jan brewer sounds like a racist to me they should vote her out of office..bring the people together not destroy family..

        • jax

          I totally agree with you Brenda..I’m a hard working tax payer….The problem this is a racist state and you are always going to be seen/judged by the color of your skin! What they really need to focus on how to give our schools more funds, and cutting welfare for all those lazy ass people who sit on there ass all day,smoke crack and collect tax payer$$$$$…

          • jax

            Hey Ashley!…I can’t stop laughing…I actually feel sorry for you…VIVA LOS MEXICANOS!!! We are here to stay….

            • Kenem

              Folks. The question isn’t whether Mexicans have a right to be here. The question is what this law does to our country. Are we really willing to essentially become a police state in order to evict some of these folks? You end up fighting against immigration so much that by the time you turn around and look at the country you’ve been “defending” you realize you’re not very proud of it anymore. If the idea of a policeman asking random people on the street for their papers doesn’t give you creeps…YOU really shouldn’t be in this country. Seriously. This country is about freedom and independence and not fearing the government. If you’re ok giving that up for any reason, you don’t understand what makes this country wonderful.

              • Jafu

                You are misguided as to what makes America great. The key word is illegal. Part of what makes America great is that we’re a nation of laws. Any foreign national who enters the United States legally is welcomed. To allow an illegal alien to remain here is a direct slap in the face to every legal resident alien who patiently waited their turn and entered here legally. Don’t confuse freedom and independence with allowing illegal behavior. I have no problem with trained police officers checking i.d. of suspected illegals. It helps keep our citizens safer.

                • Kenem

                  Jafu. I am a legal alien. I waited 6 years to get my papers. I know about what’s fair and what isn’t. I do not condone illegal immigration. But I’m surprised that I know more about the foundation and Raison d’être of this country. This country wasn’t founded because the world was lawless and we craved laws. This country was founded because people were persecuted and wanted freedom, and we wanted a government that worked for the population, not against them. I’m a true republican at heart. And that means I want a small government. I want individual rights. And I certainly don’t want police officers demanding papers while I stroll down the street with my family on Sunday morning. That’s not the US I’ve loved from afar my whole life and worked nearly a decade to be a part of. I’m saddened that you–presumably a US Born American can’t see what makes this country wonderful.
                   
                  Yes. End illegal immigration.
                   
                  But don’t destroy who we are in the process.

                  • copout

                    Kenem, I understand your desire to be part of a “system” that has evolved into something we thought was working.  But you have to admit, when the system is abused and misguided just to benefit those who are only trying to steal; it is time to change the “course of action”, in terms of “Illegal Immigration”.  Many people have died and suffered so we can have an immigration policy in place, to give up now would mean their death was in vain.  This country does not care what flag you hold up, but recognize where you are and where you stand is America,  respect the true colors that are symbolic to what we call America.  We have a diplomatic system in place developed and deployed by our most sacred friend, freedom.  All we ask is you stand with our system and believe we can continue to evolve grow and change and do so on middle ground.

        • copout

          Brenda don’t be so hot headed, your ignorance is starting to drain and drip all over the place.  When you buy your home, move out from mama and daddy’s house, chime back in

        • SPElectronics

          brenda, all races ARE equal in the U.S.. This has nothing to do with RACE! This has everything to do with the LAW, and people coming here ILLEGALLY. People like you always spew stuff about “if you are working and paying taxes then whats the problem”. The problem is, ILLEGAL ALIENS are NOT paying taxes. They are being hired ILLEGALLY, being paid UNDER THE TABLE with no taxes being paid, and then they send the money the earned illegally OUT of our country. Then they get hurt and go to our hospitals and get free medical care, which WE that DO PAY TAXES end up paying for. Their children go to our schools on OUR tax dollars, not THEIRS, thus sucking up even MORE of our resources. Do you really think that is fair? If so, you are NUTS, or are obviously collecting welfare yourself, so you don’t think about or care about who foots the bill.

  • Mari

    A lot of people are for this law because they don’t understand what it is to harassed. Until their family, friends or even themselves go through something like this will they see how inhumane it is. They don’t understand what it is to suffer and try to give their family something better than they had. I completely agree with what is written here, if they want to control immigration let them do it at the borders, leave it to the border patrol. Let the police officers focus on the crime we have in our cities. How can we keep letting our nation repeat it’s history? Have we’ve not learned anything? This law makes me ashamed to say I am from Arizona.

    • Todd

      then move

      • leftfield

        We could do that, but I think a better idea is to support the effort to have the law declared unconstitutional. 

      • brenda

        todd you sound racist..get over yourself..crimes will go up in ariz.. because of this law for the fact iilegal wont want to call the cops when they is a problem so therefor they will take it upon themself to take action..

        • Mike

          It is racist to tell someone to move if they don’t like the law of the state they live in??? Perhaps you should learn the proper application of the term racist.

          • MacScotsman

            The proper application of the term racist is “anyone who disagrees with me”.  You probably think that is not the proper application, but that is because you are racist.  :)
            I think the law is problematic, but understandable given the daily issues faced in Arizona along the border.  Since the feds have been dragging their feet, the state stepped in.  The law makes me uneasy, but I also do have to live with the issues they have due to illegal immigration.

  • leftfield

    Skeeter and Bubba go hunting one afternoon. While they are out, Skeeter all of a sudden falls over and quits breathing. Bubba pulls out his cell phone and calls 911. He says, “O my gosh, my friend Skeeter just fell down on the ground and quit breathin’. I think he might be dead.” Well, the 911 employee says “Make sure he’s dead.” Bubba says “Okay, give me a second.” All of a sudden, they hear a loud bang. Bubba picks the phone back up and says “Yup, he’s dead alrite.”

  • Seth

    The real problem is that the people who passed and support this law don’t care about any amendments other than the 2nd. To these people the 14th amendment is little more than a nuisance.

    • likeusdude

      I doubt they can count much past 2….

  • JESSE

    I am tired of hearing of all the taxpayers money the illegal aliens are using on benefits etc.  I am 47 and have worked in the restuarant industry all of my life and knew many illegals that worked over 80 hours a week for employers and at the end of the year were not able to claim any of the taxes they had paid into the different agencies, becuase they were using a fake social security card that would not match up with the IRS.  Try to multiply this by the millions of illegals the goverment agencies say we have in our state and do the math do they really use the taxpayers money or do they contribute to our economy and help keep the goverment in the black by not claiming these taxes during income tax season???   “Let’s get real here people”

    • brenda

      you tell them jesse..the real thrth is told without them usa would be in a bigger debt because the people in usa doesnt even want to work but live off welfare…

    • fortbuckley

      Jesse…excuse me, JESSE!!!!!…you make a great case for a guest worker program…NOT for illegally entering the country.

    • SPElectronics

      JESSE, so you are saying that ALL illegal aliens are working using fake social security numbers? If so, you are a total buffoon!
      Even if this WERE the case, you are essentially justifying breaking yet ANOTHER law, identity theft. You think it’s ok to steal another persons identity? Identity theft is a very serious crime! If you think that using someones social security number to work and pay taxes that you don’t later HELPS anyone, and doesn’t do any HARM, you are ridiculously uneducated.
      By using a social security number belonging to another person, you are STEALING, and causing GREAT harm to that person. By using that number you are making it appear that the person is working when in fact he MAY be injured or laid off and trying to collect unemployment benefits, benefits which he EARNED, and is now unable to collect because the unemployment office shows him as WORKING.
      What if the person is injured and collecting insurance, and an insurance investigator discovers that he is “working” (because some illegal alien has stolen his identity and is working illegally)? That person is now subject to arrest for insurance fraud, and must PROVE that he is NOT working, and that someone else has stolen his identity. Then he must FIND and SUE the person that stole his identity if he wants to clear his name and recover from the disaster caused. It is very difficult to recover from identity theft!
      What about when the REAL person whose identity was stolen by the ILLEGAL alien files taxes, and when the feds run his social security number they show him as working in two places, and earning much more money than he claimed on his taxes, and they start a tax fraud investigation against him?
      What if that illegal alien decides he wants to buy something on credit, and gets a loan under his assumed identity? Now what if the REAL person whose identity was stolen wants to get a loan? He CAN’T because the bank says he already has too many loans out and his income doesn’t support his outgoing payments. So, the illegal alien get to enjoy whatever purchase he made, but the REAL person whose identity was stolen gets the shaft. Now what if that illegal alien defaults on that loan? Who is the bank going to go after? The REAL person whose identity was stolen. How NICE! Real fair isn’t it?!
      How about you THINK before you speak?!

      • SPElectronics

        That one line should read “If you think that using someones social security number to work and pay taxes that you don’t later collect/claim…”

  • dave no jutice

    its about time send the people who should not be in this country  send them pacpin and kick thier ass out of her with  any law comes problems we dont all like all but we have to be law abiding amerians .please press 2 and get the hell out

  • susann guevara

    You all know something not all american’s are racist…This is PATHETIC and YES i am married to a hispanic but he is legal here but what seem’s to be the big problem???Everyone seem’s to be sooo jealous and hateful to them and thats not right at all there here trying to make a living just like everyone else and YES i think that governor is STUPID because this will not stick very long.. and i hope they sue the hell out of that woman and the state of arizona.I am from here and married to a hispanic  as well…and ya know i keep thinking there trying to tear families apart and thats horrible and cruel how would we feel if this was happening to us and we might loose are mothers,fathers,brothers,sisters???We would not like that at all.And i am not trying to hate on americans but come on this is seriously ridiculous..

    • SPElectronics

      susann guevara, how can you say this is trying to tear families apart? How is it anyone’s fault if you (or anyone) has family here that is illegal, and they get sent home? It isn’t OUR fault if that happens, it is THEIR/YOUR fault for being here illegally! We didn’t ask you to break the law to enter the country! It is no different than if my son, daughter, wife, etc. committed a crime here and were arrested and taken to jail for it. That is “breaking up a family” too, but it’s JUSTIFIED, because someone BROKE THE LAW! If you are here ILLEGALLY then you BROKE THE LAW and deserve to be punished for it. If it breaks up a family, that is YOUR fault, not the governors, not the legislators, not the people of AZ’s, NOBODY but your OWN!

  • ivett

    i think that the crackheads, people that are citizens n get money off the gov to supply themselves w drugs are more a shame to this country then the hardworking immigrants . police needs to stick to making this state better by clearing crime n they need to do their job without involving us i shouldnt need to explain myself or my status to anyone a cop should do his job without me needing to show anything. i understand theres laws n they have to be inforced however theres ways to do it. in az when u usually see a bum asking fr money theyre usually white i have hardly ever seen a hispanic ask fr money yeah they may stand outside places looking fr lil sidejobs but at least they r willing to wrk fr their money n if that were taking the economic assistance n all that first of all the gov shouldnt take care of anyone we r all grown adults n should be able to handle our own ppl wanna go n have kids then raised em n support em urself. theres way too many immigrants that deserve to be here way more then a lot of this american citizens that all they do is make the country worst…. if the usa doesnt need mexicans at all then why give out itn numbers only whats convenient to them . i wanna see a white person take a minimum wage job…..

  • ScottD

    Mark you don’t even know the definition of racial profiling let alone having the basic analytical or legal skills to evaluate SB1070.  This law only mirrors existing Federal Immigration law, which is enforced all the time.  How did you think ICE was able to determine recently that McDonalds’ workers in Arizona were illegals and raid them?  Or how did the Federal Government crack down on the Mexican shuttle to the USA last week?  It’s called law enforcement.  With thousands of Hispanics and other people with brownish skin, do you really thing it makes sense that cops will look for Brown people.  If you do, you are an idiot of the worst kind.

  • richard

    The U.S. wanted NAFTA in 1994, it gave the U.S. billions of dollars in cheap labor and revenues, while devastating Mexicos Economy and discplacing farm workers who then migrated to the border looking for jobs the U.S. supplied with its factorys. All because they could not compete at the international level with the prices of corn.
    Then that same fucken year proposition 187 was passed because they knew the immigrants once working at the borders would cross over more frequently looking for better jobs in the U.S. Coincidence i dont fucken think so. They want their cake and eat it too. We fuck up your economy displace your workers, we want you at the border to exploit you and make tons of money but we dont want you here.
    Under NAFTA the agreement was the free movement of labor, commodities and goods between Mexico the U.S. and Canada. Where is the free movement of labor? The U.S. just reaped the fruit of their policy but omit this part. I say Mexico take away NAFTA to show the U.S. that anti immigrant sentiment and exploitation will not be tolerated. Keep aggrivating Mexico’s political climate. See if they continue their war on drugs that affects your country. Your Arizona economy relies heavily on tourism which each year constitutes billions of dollars. We as latinos in California and the southwest are starting a petition to boycott your states goods and not visit it altogether. I hope you like losing your money and the jobs that are supported by it.

    • Mike

      The people exploiting illegals are their fellow mexicans not the US. It’s not us “gringo’s” forcing them to be drug mules, leaving them in the dessert to wander and die, or forcing them to pay exorbitant fees to smuggle them. That is their own people. What benefits has the US gained from NAFTA? American Automakers and Electronics producers laid off americans and built plants in Mexico. Sounds like plenty of cheap mexican jobs at the expense of american workers.
      It is really easy to spew some googled talking points rich it is another to actually know what you are talking about.

      • richard

        Mike, I have a masters and i’m working on my Phd. Most of my concentration is on immigration from Latin American and policies affecting them and the U.S.  If you do not know the benefits of what your country is receiving then learn about NAFTA. Typical American point of view with no revelant knowledge to back it up. As for “gringos” i never mentioned anything about caucasians being the only ones at fault for the implementation of NAFTA. It also includes Latinos and other Americans that stood by and did nothing. You are right that the U.S. lost hundresds and maybe thousands of jobs through this policy. This policy only served the extremely rich in both nations. But Mexico lost millions of jobs. That is a fact and it created massive displacement of workers, workers who are now in the U.S. trying to make an honest living.  Mike you have a valid point, know they are being exploited by their own people but this was as a result of the NAFTA agreement that made them exploitable in the first place. I never look at the web for knowledge that is probably something you do and you are generalizing me for it. Please do not be ignorant and generalize me. If i say something it is becase i have empirical evidence to back up my claim. Yes, I am a Mexican American.  I’m proud of America and I am proud of my culture as well. I would like to fix immigration but by fixing it, you must first acknowledge the precipitating factors that contributed to its  existence. By learning what led to this massive migration you will have a better understanding of how to fix it.  I honestly believe that if we spent money on fixing Mexicos infrastructure and helping them develop their economy this will stop the immigration that is in place. Just an idea. Why not? Instead of building these costly walls that do not do anything why not help their economy? The U.S. is quick to help other countries in the world with monetary funding, in example Israel with billions of dollars towards its military, but not Mexico its neighbor and potential ally in future struggles? Mexico has acknowledge that it has a drug problem that affects the U.S. It has taken steps to ameliorating the problem. The drug wars have cost the lives of 23000 Mexicans and further displaced thousands more who know are heading towards the U.S.  A problem that is part of the U.S. as well because if there was no pull effect for drugs there would not be a need for drug cartels. If there were jobs in Mexico people would not join Cartels. Both nations need to work together to solve their problems. Criminalizing illegal immigrants is not a way to solve a problem it never is. These people are hard working human beings. Do not generalize them because of a few bad apples that are among them. Obama and Mexico’s president need to sit down and solve this problem through diplomacy.

        • leftfield

          The facts are there, but I think your focus on nation-states vis a vis the problem (NAFTA) and the proposed solutions is misguided.  NAFTA is more of an arrangement between capitalists that just happen to live across the border from one another.  The border does not exist for capital.  Capital is free to move across borders at will; no passport is required.  Capital has no citizenship and really no country of origin; certainly no allegiance to any country.  Since government is the shadow that business interests cast across society, it seems to me that governmental solutions will either come only when a crisis has developed that threatens business interests or if a solution is devised that allows continued ever-increasing profits as well as humane immigration, seemingly a very difficult proposition.   

          • richard

            I like some of your arguments.  You analyze debate through the lens of a marxist perspective. What Americans do not realize is that some of the advancements in social services today are the product of leftist ideology.  For instance, a lot of people enjoy social security, back when it was first introduced it was seen as communist and un-American. No one wanted it but now everyone defends it with their life. Medical was seen in that light as well. Universal health care is the current wave that is seen like that. But people will start to see the benefits of it in the future and with time realize what a necessity it is. When you tie Capitalism with health care it moves it into a business field. It no longer looks to help people but it turns to make profit. When you make profits you cut costs and that means the more they do not serve you the more their profits add up. Its a for profit industry now and is a shadow of its former self, long gone are the days of helping the wounded, the sick, and the people in pain. It is not about communism it is about doing what is right. Putting a check on capitalism is a good thing in this case. It provides a balance. If you analyze the history of social wellfare it is very leftist and American.  Not to say I believe wholly in Marxist ideology, Marx never imagined a middle class would materialize it was the struggle between the ones who produce the means of production vs the plebians or working poor. Saul Alinsky on the other hand said you have to unite the middle class with the lower class on a common ground or else it will go to the right. Then you have a big problem. Then and only then when the middle goes right will you have a possibilty of a marxist revolution. I do not believe religion is the oppiate of the masses as religion has been used to change the status quo as well. Look at latin american priests who have defended the rights of the poor, or MLK. I believe all these different thoughts, left, middle, right, serve a purpose to broaden our perpectives and come as close to reality as possible. So, i thank you for your imput and you definetely have left me considering new topics of interest. Preach on leftfied. Let me know what you think of my thoughts.

  • Amber

    I am a US born citizen and am married to an illegal immigrant.  We have two children together and one on the way.  Do you have any idea what it feels like every..single..day to fear that your husband may never come home tonight?  That our lives could be completely devistated overnight?  We are hardworking Christian people with simple dreams just to raise a family and live our lives together.  These are hard enough times as it is, without the added burden of all the racism and harrassment and lack of a tranquility that so many people take for granted.

    • Brenda

      If you are so concearned then become legal the right way and do not live in the shadows

    • leftfield

      While I am sympathetic, your real persecutor has never cared about the human costs of their ill-gotten gains. 

      • leftfield

        Always bear in mind that your suffering and even your very life is nothing to them.  You are but a tool to generate profit to them and if you are more profitable if deplorable and inhuman conditions, so it will be.  If you are more profitable dead, so it too shall be.   

    • SPElectronics

      It isn’t OUR fault you married an illegal alien is it? It was a CHOICE that YOU made, knowing full well any ramifications it entailed! If you want to live without fear, tell your husband to return to his country, and APPLY for legal residency like he should have in the first place! Or for that matter, you can move to his country and apply for residency there, per their laws. You probably can’t just go to his country and do what he did here, without the same fear, so why should it be ok when he does it here?
      Is it not our responsibility to make sure you live without fear, or to allow you to break the laws of this great nation!

  • ANDY

    If they desurve to be here then file for citizenship like my for fathers did. What is so wrong with that. Is it not a slap in the face to every person that got there citizenship the right way if we just grant it to a curtain race. And it is a fact that the illegal immigrants are the primary reason for the health care issue. look it up. and before you start quoting the 14th ammendment read it first it mainly applies to citizens not illegals. It  applies to them when they get arested so they get treated proporly.

  • 3dbm

    Hispanics like myself care about the State of Arizona and America too. Good job Arizona Lawmakers on the new law. 
    Worst case scenario…
    If we alow illegal imigration to continue, then we will end up even more corrupt than Mexico because we will have the underground economy of drugs that accompanies illegal immigration.  Our U.S. Federal Government is already turning a blind eye to it’s own corruption.  and it will get worse after our economy  crashes – in part thanks to illegal immigration (i.e. California)  then watch as Americans leave the U.S  to try to find a better life in other countries

    • ScottD

      3dbm
      Thanks for sharing your story.  I wish more Hispanics would get involved and show that immigration law is not a racial issue.  It doesn’t seem fair to legal immigrants who did things the correct way and have their job taken away by someone who just arrived in the USA illegally via coyotes and a drop house.

  • ANDY

    Amendment 14 – Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    • http://none.com technormality

      They key word being “citizens”……

      • Entropy

        Read a little further: “; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

        Any person…. where does it say citizen of the US?

        • Andy g

          1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside

          Read the first line not between the lines read it for what it says not what you want it to say…….

  • http://none.com technormality

    Amber, you chose to marry an illegal immigrant knowing the laws.  That is no ones fault but your own.  If you want to not worry about your husband not coming back then move to the country where he has legal status.  You both choose to risk it every day…  File for citizenship through the legal process, we have laws for a reason in this country..

  • http://thechollajumps.com Jim Kelley

    John, your ignorant racist rant is an insult to the debate.

    • ScottD

      Jim, I read John’s racist commentary too but I believe it was a fake letter in order to incite anger.  I don’t believe the person was from Norway either as I stated in my comment.

      • Mark B. Evans

        John’s comment got deleted and banned from TC.com, if any of you are wondering what the comments referring to “John” are about.

  • http://thechollajumps.com Jim Kelley

    Please censor this racist garbage from the blog.

    • http://none.com technormality

      Why, hundreds of thousands of soldiers fought for his freedom of speech..

    • richard

      John
      What your mom should of told you was stay in school and do not eat that lead. Seriously!!!!

  • richard

    Wow, manifest destiny taught by a dumb ass. Learn to write better before you imput your ideas that seem to stem from your delusionary thinking. Antichrist? Your father Hitler tried that already and failed. Good thing he shot himself like a coward before he was captured. Browns? Are you alluding to Latinos? You have the education of a “kindgergarden” lol. You put down Latinos to mask your own flaws. Please do us a favor and erase yourself. You are a waste of oxygen and space. Or call the Psychiatric Evaluation Team to put yourself on a 5150. At least educate yourself on Islam not the jihad type and you will see that it is a peaceful religion that brings people of all colors under one god. Seriously, even an immigrant with a 2 year education writes better than you.

  • http://none.com technormality

    John, you are a sick racist..  The color of your skin has nothing to do with your ability to be a good citizen..  Just read your own post for a perfect example of stupidity.  Eugenics and Darwinism was defeated in WWII and will continue to be defeated when it raises it’s ugly head SEE ABOVE..

  • ANDY

    Mexico has stricter laws on immgratoin then we do and they are not afraid to inforce them and dont care what race you are. IT IS Simple apply for citizenship you will get more respect

  • ScottD

    “John” or whatever your name is,  You are a lying fool and we can see right through you!  You are really Mexican and looking to rabble rouse.
    This letter was NOT written by someone from Norway.  #1 They would know how to spell “Norway”  #2.  Someone from Norway would never use the word “Browns” –that is something only local activists say.  #3  Norway is the most liberal country in the world and virtually nobody thinks this way.  The person who wrote this is a Spanish speaker as a first language.  Take my word for it I am an ESL teacher and taught all over the world!
     

  • ScottD

    And one more thing, people of Norway learn English in the very early years, they would never write this bad broken English like “John” wrote.
    Beware of the Alinsky activists who will say and do anything–lie and cheat to create civil and racial strife for their own selfish political gain!

    • leftfield

      Beware of the Alinsky activists…

      Spoken like a true John Birch activist.  I wonder who started this business of inflaming the hordes with the ghost of dead Saul Alinsky?  The guy is as dead as old Ronnie Raygun.  How did a book he wrote decades ago suddenly become a way of whipping the masses into a frenzy of excitement?
       

  • Monica

    NO TO SB 1070-
    IN 90 DAYS THINGS WILL CHANGE DRAMATICALLY HERE IN ARIZONA! I’M EMBARRASSED TO CALL MY SELF AN ARIZONAN, HOW DARE OUR GOVERNOR SET THE STAGE FOR RACIAL PROFILING THAT WE HAVE FOUGHT SO MANY YEARS TO ABOLISH. THIS IS THE TIME THAT WE MUST ALL UNITE AND FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS!!!

    SUPPORT THE CAUSE! SHE CAN’T DEPORT US ALL, WE WILL KNOCK DOWN THE WALL!
    And by the way, yes I am a US Citizen, just like you and have the right to express myself….

    NO SB 1070!
     

  • Gordon

    LOL … at this law.  It is going to run into problems real soon.
    It’s going to make Arizona look stupid, as well as its governor.

  • http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com Tom Degan

    Racial profiling does not work and I’ll prove it to you:

    You’re sitting on a park bench at dusk in New York City’s Central Park. On the bench to your left are five African American teenagers. On the bench to your right are five white, middle-aged, overweight and balding Wall Street bankers.

    QUESTION:

    Which group is more likely to rob you of everything you own?

    ‘Nuff said?

    http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

    Tom Degan

    • J. Smith

      Seems it’s been the Wall Street bankers…

    • J. A. Smith

      The Wall Street bankers (check my retirement funds…)

    • Brenda

      My vote is on the balding Wall Street bankers.

  • tiponeill

    It will be interesting to see the guidelines and training that will allow the police to determine who they can reasonably suspect of being “illegal” without racial profiling, but Mark is right – it is an impossible contradiction.
    Maybe we should all just wear American Flag lapel pins.
    The most troubling aspects of the bill are others which may be constitutional, however.
    Are neighbors going to report neighbors for being “illegal” ?
    Are families going to feel safe calling the cops if they think the cops might investigate their families.
    Will churches be required to check citizenship before dispensing charity or helping day laborers get work ?
    (They ain’t gonna do it)
    Am I going to ask the guy who wants to cut my lawn for a passport ?
    (Ain’t gonna do it)

  • fortbuckley

    susann, if you keep using language like the “f” word I see in sentence 4 of your post, I doubt you’ll be around here long.

  • JWilly

    Racial profiling is a code for racism. SB 1070 alows racism to be carried out under the cover of an unjust law. This is nothing more than a Klansman’s hood. They wore the hood because they were ashamed of the crimes they committed. Racists are quick to deny their racism because they are cowards at heart.
    The issues of violence that are resulting from criminals will not be made easier to solve by forcing innocents into the shadows less willing to help law enforcement to solve them.
    Sadly this knee jerk reaction “law” was developed in response to the tragic death of kind-hearted rancher who happened to be white. The Minutemen and groups like them operate from the basis of fear, anger and hatred. When we come together as a common citizenry equally concerned about crimes and make a genuine effort to understand the forces that divide us rather than feeding on the racial hatred that drives us apart, we will find a way out of this.
    Those of us who grew up in the deep south (texas) saw what racial hatred brings (lynchings, literacy tests, etc). Arizona is turning back the clock on civil rights and quickly becoming everything that the civil rights movement sought to dissolve. 
    In signing this bill, Brewer has joined past Governors of the racist south like Lester Maddox, Orville Faubus and George Wallace.  We need a governor (and legislature) who will work to bring us together to solve our problems not drive us apart and incite racial hatred.

    • Brenda

      First of all if you are speaking of illegal’s as “innocent” you are very wrong. Let us start with defining the word “illegal” it is: against the law, it is: unlawful. Now, how can they be innocent? Millions of individuals have cross our borders unlawfully, they have also cost the American taxpayers Billions of dollar to aid in their support and these ungrateful bigots spit on all that we have done or them in the name of humanity and now they have the nerve to call us racists. As an African American, I would like to see every individual who is in this country illegally to return to his or her home country, be it Africa, Russia, China, Mexico or Iraq it does not matter. You entered this country illegally or you over-stayed your temporary welcome, it time to go home and allow us to get control of our economy, the burden you have placed on us is too great and its time we are given a break from your take, take an take. Yes, the contribute a little to the economy, but they take out more, that more continue to increase with each and everyone of them. I sincerely do not want to hear how we are breaking up families, you did this when you entered this country, remember you did not mine leaving family behind when you made the decision to break our laws and cross our border.

  • Brenda

    As usual these people will get priviledges that American citizens dont get. This one statement “ There’s no reason I should have to carry around any proof of citizenship, nor my son.”. This women is obviouly an illegal alien. I have to show proof of my citizenship every time I am stopped by one of our finest, at the doctors office. Try to apply for a job without two form of ID. Who the heck has been talking to this women and what makes her and her son more special than citizens that is required to carry two forms of  ID. If our government choose to discriminate against American citizens require us to product identifications at every turn but illegal do not because the fear they are going to yell racial discrimination. I will be the first one to file a discrimination suit against my own govenment on the grounds of discrimination. Oh, by the way, I am an African American Women with Native American ancestory.  Stop screaming racial profiling……… you really have no ideal what that really is.

  • Larry

    Proud to be American.  So proud I wouldn’t be offended when someone asks to see proof.  I would gladly show authorities a drivers license or passport.  I would encourage the rest of you law-abiding Americans to take the same approach.  If you don’t I would think that’s reasonable suspision to wonder why you aren’t a proud American.  

    Thoughts on that?

    • leftfield

      Proud to be American.  So proud I wouldn’t be offended when someone asks to see proof.  I would gladly show authorities a drivers license or passport.  I would encourage the rest of you law-abiding Americans to take the same approach.  If you don’t I would think that’s reasonable suspision to wonder why you aren’t a proud American.  
      Thoughts on that?

      Read the interviews below and tell me how proud you are, Larry.  It’s easy for you to talk, because it ain’t gonna happen to you or your family. 

    • bj

      I agree. When stopped I expected to be asked for my id, I think I would worry if I was not ask. Only an individual in this country illegally would find fault with this.

  • leftfield

    This is a little tangential, but I think relevant to the fears of a developing Police State.  The following interviews are from this last week and were conducted in Nogales, Sonora.
    Interview conducted 15 April 2010.  Interviewee E—– T—–, from Oaxaca, reported that he was apprehended in October in the desert and was held for six months in Holbrook after going to Streamline in Tucson.  He was held in extreme cold with no blankets and was told by Border Patrol, “Shut your mouth,” “You’re trash,” and “You should speak English in my country.”

    Interview conducted 15 April 2010.  Interviewee, A—– A—– L—–, from Mexico, who reported that while in custody in Yuma on 24 March Border Patrol threw away all of her possessions, including medicine. She was also kicked in the stomach and did not receive any medical attention.  When No More Deaths volunteers met her on 15 April she reported continued pain in her abdomen.  She also reported that when she was apprehended in the desert with a group Border Patrol handcuffed everyone in the group to one another and made them walk in a line for twenty minutes in the dark.  She fell because it was difficult to walk and they pushed her.  She has a son in Oregon.

    Interview conducted 15 April 2010.  Interviewee, L—– A——P—–, reported that he had lived in Phoenix since 1999.  On 6 December 2009 at approximately 8pm he was pulled over by Phoenix police while driving and thrown on the ground and beaten, breaking his nose and dislocating his knee.  He was then held in ICE Custody, Phoenix-West M53, until the first week of April.  At no time while in custody did he receive medical attention, and went to court with his face “covered with blood.”  His nose and knee healed incorrectly and his forehead and right side of his face are covered with scars from the assault.  The first name of one of the officers who beat him is J—–.  He never had access to a lawyer. He also reported that the police robbed him of $90 that he had in his possession at the time.

    Interview conducted 15 April 2010.  Interviewee, young man from Mexico, reported that when apprehended in the desert on 13 April 2010 at approximately 6pm, the Border Patrol burned his belongings in front of him, saying “this is trash.”  He and another man who was present with him during the interview reported that while held in custody in Nogales, AZ, the center was extremely cold and they were held for two days without receiving food, only crackers.  The man who was with him, who also wished to remain anonymous, reported that the Border Patrol agents said, “We?re going to kill you.”

    • Hoosier Woman

      To leftfield….WHAAAAA! Boo HOO HOO! Snivel snivel snivel! If they dont like the treatment they get when they break the law then STAY IN MEXICO! And dont bring up their “human rights”…. if they break the law then they dont have any rights.Sorry, but you wont find any pity from me for lawbreakers!

      • leftfield

        I’ll bet you were all about that torture business, weren’t you?

        I hate to burst your bubble, but it isn’t true that people arrested for a crime have no rights.  Even non-citizens have rights under the constitution.  No one is asking for your pity, anyway.  You have to have a heart and be somewhat human in order to be empathetic.

    • jim kelley

      Lefty, you are being duped. Or you are being an agent of liars. I really don’t know which one.

      • leftfield

        Or, just maybe, you are being willfully obtuse.  I’ve been there, Big Guy.  I’ve heard the stories firsthand. 

        No one says that all BP agents commit these crimes, just as not all BP agents work for the drug cartels.  But some do and the BP is not immune to the culture of intolerance and hate that the right wing promotes.   

  • copout

    Jax: listen up, here is your educational lesson for your ignorance. Open your eyes and pull your thumb out of your….To all of you who do not support SB1070; Move to Mexico or back, if you hate Arizona so much.  I’m tired of listening to all you whiners and your stories of how embarrassed you are of OUR state, not yours.  Pack up your families and move out.  You bitch about your economy and how bad it is, but you have no clue how it got like that right?  Here’s a clue; they came in droves from the South and they moved in droves to the North with their pick-ups piled two stories high with their personal belongings, occupied a PO box, walked to DES with their new PO box address, filed for “Federal” Government aid, took a job that pays under the table, don’t pay FEDERAL and STATE taxes, and took a job that could have been yours.  Priceless…! But here’s a thought Governor Jan Brewer:  Arizona needs a Senate Bill that requires DES in Douglas Arizona to follow the same protocol as SB1070. Why doesn’t the Federal Government check their place of business? DES staff in Douglas need to STOP GIVING AWAY WHITE HOUSE FEDERAL MONEY AND SINKING THIS STATE DEEPER INTO DEBT.  To the disbeliever, misbelievers, doubters and haters, Pass, Pull Over, or get out of Arizona! This Nation has got to be the biggest hypocrite to date. What we should be doing is petitioning to remove our congressmen and congresswoman if they are asking this Country to boycott Arizona; they need to resign their position of representing Arizona. They have not done anything for Arizona, now all of the sudden they have a voice, shallow but all the same they have no business serving us.  Here Arizona is in a crisis and the White House refuses to help out our State because we have a Republican Governor, but will help out any Democratic State.  The time has come for change our President of the United States tells us, but provides none.  Arizona makes change to serve and support its citizens and economy and all of the sudden “everyone” has an opinion. What some do not understand is, it is the Illegal Immigrants, Ger man, Russian, Asian, and Mexicans whom are really hurting our economy.  When any illegal is hired to work, it’s not that they are given a job an American missed out on, it’s they don’t pay Federal and State taxes and the person doing the hiring is also not paying their Federal and State taxes.  This is a missed opportunity for any State to earn money and cannot, by virtue of 12 million illegal’s not paying taxes and States not being able to collect taxes on businesses. But we continue to break the law,  hire Immigrants and complain about how bad our government is serving our Nation and/or State, hypocrisy at it’s best!

    • richard

      Wrong…they do jobs your ass will not do or countless other Americans choose not to do. Would you want to pick fruit, clean a toilet, cut grass, work in Mcdonalds like a slave all day? They do not file for taxes, they pay taxes on food, clothes, gas, utilities etc and they never file for taxes….hummmmmmm  millions  of immigrants x the amount they pay in taxes they never see a penny in return=millions of dollars for your economy. Wow if they filed for taxes wouldnt the Federal and State goverment owe them money? I do not know what you are arguing for because it doesn’t make sense. In addition to the amount they save your butt because they keep the food low at cost to you because well lets face it they get paid crap to work long hours.  Your right about one thing they came in droves but to work, not to collect money they are not qualified for, because they are not citizens. Its been proven empirically that citizens of the state collect wellfare and other social services from your goverment not immigrants. They have a stronger protestant work ethic than you and most Americans and they are not protestant. They would rather sell oranges in the heat of the day than receive help. Thats the difference between Americans living on the street and immigrants living on the street. Immigrants do not beg for money they dont feel entitled and they rather work for their money. Stop scategoating this group and seriously educate yourself in economics and immigrant culture.

      • bj

        I would rather pay the higher cost. Go home.

  • copout

    Senate Bill for Department Of SecuritySenate Bill for Department Of Security, DESSenate Bill for Department Of Security, DESSenate Bill for Department Of Security, DESSenate Bill for Department Of Security, DESSenate Bill for Department Of Security, DESStart with Douglas Arizona DES, there are thousands of laws being broken by the staff and they know it, where is our President now, our Congressman and Congresswoman bailed and are boycotting us, what are you going to do?

  • copout

    Last evening a friend from Douglas Arizona calls me up and tells me a house two blocks from him was being raided by Douglas Police and Border Patrol. The house was being rented by an illegal immigrant from Mexico harboring 26 illegal’s from Mexico, 3 of which have criminal records, (1451-12th street) and the owner of the home was aware of it.  What are the criminal Illegal Immigrants doing in Douglas…these immigrants were on their way to Phx, remember 9/11.  What do all those non believers of SB1070 have to say now? You have no idea what honest citizens are going through each day along the Mexico United States border. Most of the Illegal immigrants crossing are connected with the Mexican Cartel and are doing the job no one wants, crossing drugs through Douglas and to here in Tucson and Phx. There was also a Rancher whom was also murdered in Douglas less than one month ago by a member of the Mexican Cartel, and it seems like he was already forgotten about. What is wrong with you people? . Since President Obama will not do anything for Arizona and Congressman Grijalva is boycotting Arizona, Congresswoman Gifford does nothing for her district and only works outside her district; Governor Jan Brewer is the “only” one helping her State.  There are  illegal immigrants getting free government aid in Douglas at the Department of Economic Security (DES), just because the immigrants have an illegal Post Office box from Douglas Arizona.  They walk over with their address in hand and get all the aid they need. It goes on and on, but Hey! Grijalva and Gifford are boycotting us and working outside their districts.  OPEN YOUR EYES, you see this going on, do you report it? If not, you are the problem. Move out of Arizona

    • leftfield

      You really think this law or any other is going to effect the flow of drugs or the power of the drug cartels one iota?  So long as America has a terrible drug problem, someone, from somewhere, is going to supply the drugs.  Those drugs have to come across the border somewhere.  

      Even if I did move from AZ, I think you’d still have a drug problem. 

  • James Radford

    Arizona’s new immigration law is a prime example of why the federal government, from time to time, must intercede state laws. We can call it state’s rights or state sovereignty or a number of other terms; as we all know, these terms are generally euphemisms to defend racist laws and policies. This is the same state that fought tooth and nail to prevent the recognition of Martin Luther King’s birthday. We can not ignore injustice just because it occurs outside the borders of our state. I wish there was a way to protest and boycott any product produced in Arizona.  These are the same people that cry about how “We want our country back, We are being stripped of our liberties,” and my personal favorite, “Obama is doing things Hitler did.” Meanwhile, laws such as this DO strip us of our liberties. What would have been more likely, Hitler reforming a corrupt health care system or Hitler passing a law that required undesirables to carry documentation of their ancestry?

    • copout

      You know James we just had a Pima County Law Enforcement officer shot at with AK17′s and hit.  He lived but the intent was to kill him, why? Because the shooters were crossing drugs into Arizona.  Less than a month ago a rancher was shot and killed while doing nothing more than patrolling his land.  The irony is all shooters were from Mexico, all shooters are connected with the Mexican cartel, and all are illegal immigrants.  Yes, “each” state has the right to protect it as long as the Constitution allows us to, but you failed to mention that the Federal Government has an obligation to protect each state  if that state expresses and/or expresses the need for it.  Not only has President Obama and his administration failed, but so have the last 15 Presidents.  For years Arizona has approached Presidents to support an immigration bill.  Well, you know as well as I do any politician do not want to touch this, shame on them.  If you take a poll, you will find 65% of Americans of all walks want some sort of immigration reform bill, why would you think they want this, because things are out of control.  I share with you only a few tragic incidents directly related to illegal immigrants.   Department of Economic Security is giving free aid to any illegal that comes to them with a factitious address, most of the time it is a Post Office box from your local Post Office.  With that in hand they get what they want. Can you imagine the amount of money being funneled from DES to the hands of illegal’s when the  American people can use that relief ? Wow, I’m interested in seeing what you have to say about that.

  • Steve

    re: “Illegals do work no Legal will do”… I WANT THAT JOB! I have none, and they do? Something wrong with this picture.

    • copout

      The irony with the Arizona boycotts is they will clear the way for unemployed people (of all races) to move in, kidda like a strike.  Those that go on strike don’t want to work, while others just come in and take the jobs they don’t want, what a concept, i love it!! Bring it on!!!  Our ads will read “JOBS NOW AVAILABLE IN ARIZONA, COME AND GET THEM”  Thank you California and New Mexico…oh and Shakira.

  • copout

    The irony with the Arizona boycotts is they will clear the way for unemployed people (of all races) to move in, kidda like a strike.  Those that go on strike don’t want to work, while others just come in and take the jobs they don’t want, what a concept, i love it!! Bring it on!!!  Our ads will read “JOBS NOW AVAILABLE IN ARIZONA, COME AND GET THEM”  Thank you California and New Mexico…oh and Shakira.