Tucson Citizen.com
Caveat Lector - Politics, Government and the Free Press – by Mark B. Evans

Guns on campus bill will not make Arizona colleges safer, or more dangerous

by on Feb. 03, 2012, under Editorials, Politics

The Second Amendment, and the way it has recently been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court, makes most bills that attempt to bar or inhibit Americans from possessing guns futile.

On the flip side, the resistance of many Americans to surrendering to a totally armed populace has made it difficult to pass new laws that repeal or liberalize gun possession restrictions.

Last month, Arizona’s gun-toter-in-chief, Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu City, has once again proposed an omnibus gun bill that includes allowing college students and faculty to pack heat on campus.

Gov. Jan Brewer vetoed a similar Gould bill last year but not because the state’s community college boards, university presidents and faculty organizations were nearly unanimous in opposition. Brewer’s beef was with vague language.

So Gould crafted a new bill this year that allows people with a concealed-carry permit to keep their guns in their pants (or purse) while on campus. If a college doesn’t want guns in the classroom, it has to provide storage lockers and metal detectors at all entrances to buildings, a cost so prohibitive it’s almost guaranteed not to happen.

College leaders and administrators are once-again lining up in opposition. In doing so, they run out a parade of horribles to illustrate the harm pistol-packing students and teachers will cause. Why, it will be Armageddon – drunken college students shooting up dorms and fraternities, running gun battles in the halls; mass hysteria.

Except it won’t happen. Four states – Oregon, Utah, Wisconsin and Mississippi- already allow guns on campus and so far nothing bad has happened. Nor is it likely to happen.

The common counter to that data is Virginia Tech, in which a student in 2007 killed more than 30 students and teachers. Or locally, the UA Nursing School shooting in 2002 in which a student killed three teachers.

How could those shootings happen when Virginia and Arizona banned guns on campuses? It happened because both shooters were insane. Funny thing about the insane, they tend not to care what the law says.

Guns can’t be banned because of the Second Amendment. But a 2008 Supreme Court ruling, District of Columbia v. Heller, has opened the door to regulating how they can be possessed outside of the home.

In that ruling (and a subsequent 2010 ruling), the court disconnected guns from regulated militias and ruled that the Second Amendment allowed Americans to keep guns in their homes for self defense. It didn’t extend that protection to persons and has raised questions about what happens to guns outside of the home.

Some states are taking advantage of that ruling and seeking tighter restrictions on gun possession, other states, such as Arizona, are taking the opposite tack and loosening gun restrictions.

The early data show that states that have tightened gun laws have seen no marked decrease in gun violence. Yet the same goes for states that have loosened gun laws – there has been no marked increase in gun violence.

Morever, as a society, we seem to have a high tolerance for gun violence. According to the Centers for Disease Control, about 100,000 people suffer gunshot wounds in America every year and about a third of them die. (That’s a higher casualty rate than most wars America has fought.)

Of those who died, more than half were suicides. The majority of the rest were shootings connected to drug dealing.

Gun restriction advocates like to say that strict controls on gun ownership, or even eradication will lower the numbers of killed and wounded. Hardly. There are nearly 200 million firearms in American homes. Irrespective of the Second Amendment, there’s no realistic way to get rid of those guns, which means criminals and depressives will still have access to them.

On the other hand, gun rights advocates like to argue that if all Americans carried a gun, crime would plummet because any time a ne’er-do-well drew his gat, an army of pistol-packing mammas and papas would draw their shootin’ irons and gun the varmint down. That will never happen. Morever, if it ever did, the crossfire from all the missed shots would be more likely to kill bystanders than bad guys.

So the argument that we’ll be less safe if everyone’s got a gun is just as specious that we’ll be safer if everyone does.

Most of the gun violence in this country (other than suicides) is committed by people involved in the illicit drug trade. Solve the illegal drug problem in America and the amount of gun violence will fall precipitously.

Pass Gould’s bill or don’t, it won’t really matter. College campuses will be just as safe (or dangerous, depending on your perspective) if some faculty and students have concealed guns than if they didn’t.


  • cigs645

    It’s OK Mark , why not .It is legal in Arizona for anyone to walk into any nightclub or bar at midnight drunk  packing a concealed weapon/s. I know if I were  a bouncer in a club in Phoenix that would give me warm and fuzzy feelings all over. Proprietor can post a sign asking patrons not to carry heat but how are they going to know if anyone is since the weapon/s is concealed. Welcome to the wild wild west, 2012 version.

    • JimFromHouston

       ”.It is legal in Arizona for anyone to walk into any nightclub or bar at midnight drunk  packing a concealed weapon/s.”

      Why do you say this as if it were true?

  • jarhead1982

    Cigs is a liar unless he can specifically show the change in the law that says a person carrying concealed is allowed to be drunk while doing so.

    Oh you mean wild west as 1970′s W Eugene Hollon, authored a review of government death data that shows over 1870-1885 all the wildest west towns reviewing government death data and wow, only 45 deaths
    for a 1 per 100k death rate.

    Then we review FBI UCR database in 2008 and we see gun ban paradises Chicago 12.3 deaths per 100k people, NYC 4.3 deaths per 100k people, Washington D.C. 23.2 deaths per 100k people, Wow, funny how the gun ban paradises are so much more violent than the wild west eh? Just proves reality is entirely different than your drug induced fantasies based on dime store novels and hollywood.

    • cigs645

      Law passed in Arizona allows anyone to walk into any nightclub or bar carrying a concealed weapon. That is the law. Last I checked people go to nighclubs to party.The propriotor of the club or bar can post a sign out front barring any guns in their etsblishment but how are they going to know if some patrons are packing?  They won’t know unless someone gets shot.And people have been shot in nighclubs in Tucson.Guns and alcohol in a public place, always a great combo.

      • jarhead1982

        The law does not allow them to LEGALLY drink while carrying concealed so print the law to prove us wrong or be the liar you are!

      • jarhead1982

        Rather than play he said she said, and since you are google illiterate, here is the correct law referenced directly from the ARIZONA GOVERNMENT WEBSITE.Can any concealed firearm owner carry his/her gun into an establishment that does not post a
        sign?
        A.R.S. §4-229(A) references A.R.S. §13-3112 and A.R.S. §13-3102(D) which provide criteria for
        concealed firearm carriers. Those who qualify to carry concealed firearms under those laws may
        carry them into establishments that are licensed to sell liquor, unless the licensee posts a sign that
        clearly prohibits the possession of firearms.
        Can a gun owner consume alcohol-beverages while in possession of a firearm?
        No (A.R.S. §4-229(31)).So if the person is drinking and carrying and you know this, and you did not report them to police, you are no better than the BATF who has prosecuted less than 1% of the 930,000 felons caught attempting to buy from a licensed source since 1994.You would then be held civilly liable, just as if you had not cut a person off for drinking too much or let them drive home.Anything to say LIAR!

        • cigs645

          Yeah jarhead1982 If I have to worry about reporting some drunken fool with bad language, bad attitude and a wild bill hickock complex to authorities to determine if  they have a permit to carry a gun inside a nightclub where lots of  people party I’d just as soon not be there.In case you did not know wild bill hickock died 150 years ago.Really he did. You can google it

          • jarhead1982

            Aw poor widdle anti, PO’d because he is a proven liar, who is by the evidence of his lies, himself delusional on drugs that the wild west was more dangerous, when the facts prove otherwise. Such is the ego of the insane progressives that they refuse to acknowledge reality much less facts, go figure.

            But oh no, crying about someone doing so and then not reporting it is SOMEONE ELSES problem, such a typical progressives response!

            Have a good evening Liar!

  • Gleb Zhelezov

    Wouldn’t it be sort of scary handing back exams to students with guns?

    • tunkashila

      Wow, I wonder how professors ever survived their disgruntled students’ rage before guns were banned on campuses?!?  Apparently, they suppressed their fears and assumed that the students were mature enough to accept poor grades, you think?  

    • Zao Vu

      I wonder how cops deal with it, being handed back evaluation forms and such…

    • JimFromHouston

       Why don’t you find out how they do on the 70+ campuses that already allow concealed carry?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/V24WOJGBAIO6QRBDBTOPPD4DPQ Ado

    Had teachers and students at VT been allowed to have firearms on campus there may well have been a lot less carnage.  Laws banning weapons always work in favor of the criminal who prefers his victim to be unarmed and who will ignore gun law legislation in any case.

    • unrepentant_commie

      By that logic, Afghanistan must be the safest place on the planet right now.

  • Barry Hirsh

    I beg to differ. If you are speaking statistically, perhaps. But that has nothing to do with the fact that if a person has a gun and brains, they are less vulnerable to violent crime, and every individual has that right whether or not ‘studies’ show anything at all.

  • Jim_Gressinger

    Mark. Hi. It’s me, Jim. Several decades of observations have led me to a couple of conclusions on the Constitutional issue of guns.

    First, the NRA and its supporters have a very basic ideological premise. To wit: an armed society is a polite society. What they conveniently ignore is the frightening statistics from the Old West, particularly those mining camps where most of the population was young, male and armed. The killings per capita stats were huge and that society hardly polite. A modern equivalent is Washington DC, murder capital of the world.

    Young men overdosing on testosterone should not be allowed to possess firearms except when they are a member of a “well-regulated militia”; as in Switzerland.

    Second, my fundamental problem with NRA philosophy is that it is unlimited. My reading of NRP propaganda is this. Everyone should have the right to possess a nuclear-tipped ICBM in his or her garage.

    Brilliant! jg

    • tunkashila

      It seems you’ve been reading Brady Center propaganda, sir.  Either that or your comprehension of English is woefully inadequate.  Simply put, when the right to bear “arms” is referenced, it refers to the basic arms (read: guns) any soldier of the time can carry themselves.  Since this would obviously not include missiles, nuclear or otherwise, your “reading” does not withstand logic-try refraining from insane hyperbole or taking a reading course.