Tucson Citizen.com

Veteran Veritas

Advocacy for our Veterans

Gays In The Service? No Problem Says New Study

by on Nov. 26, 2009, under Politics, Uncategorized, Veterans Global

Bonnie Moradi, a Psychology professor at the University of Florida in tandem with Laura Miller, a military sociologist with the Rand Corporation have concluded that members of a military unit who discover that a member is gay, does not affect the military readiness or cohesion of the group. The factors that surfaced as much more important then gender,were the quality of leadership, the availability and working condition of equipment and ongoing training.

This revisited analysis suggests that homosexuals could serve openly without impacting the units cohesion, contradicting the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.

The Senate Armed Services committee will be holding hearings on this issue next year for the first time in 16 years.

This entry was posted on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 1:47 am and is filed under Politics, Uncategorized, Veterans Global. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

RSS feed for this post (comments)
  • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

    “Don’t ask, don’t tell” should be applied to heterosexuals, not just gays and lesbians. It’s discriminatory to apply a rule to less than the whole group, isn’t it?
     
    Gays and lesbians are being discriminated against – they are the “discriminees,” and yet they are the ones who face the penalty of being discharged.
     
    Let’s discharge the “discriminators,” the perpetrators of prejudice. Dishonorably discharge those who are causing the problems – they are the ones “impacting the unit’s cohesion.”

  • mорское

    “concluded that members of a military unit who discover that a member is gay, does not affect the military readiness or cohesion of the group.”

    i do not agree with the study. that said, does the study apply to companies, battalions ………. smaller units …….. team units of 4-6. team units are a different animal.

    • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

      An interesting scenario worth discussion, Mo. I am relieved to admit I have no combat experience, so I leave those details to you.
       
      Scenario #1: We have a 5 person team unit – Mo, James, O’Neill, Smith, and Winfield. (Marines, of course, or Winfield wouldn’t have enlisted.) No one knows anyone else’s sexual preference. Where would the problems lie?
       
      Scenario #2: We have the same 5 person team, but James is aware that Smith is gay. Where would the problems lie?
       
      Scenario #3: Same 5 person team, but two are female, three are male, and someone is not heterosexual.  (We are pushing this one into a reality where women are in combat, ok?) No one knows anyone else’s sexual preference.  Where do the problems lie?
       
      Intelligent, thoughtful answers could be enlightening. Anyone with enough courage behind their convictions to take this on?

      • radmax

        All perform admirably, no problems. Five ‘man’ team becomes two, any way, shape or form, you’re usually dead. Keep dreamin’ winnie. Hope this was a training exercise.

    • Ado

      Take enough surveys and you can generally find one that supports your agenda.  Anyone wanna’ bet whether Bonnie Moradi and  Laura Miller are gay or straight?

  • james

    i have never been asked by a coworker what my orientation is, most of the issues stemming from htis matter is from the the discriminees making their preferences a public matter. i don’t care what your preference may be, so long as you are performing your job tasks, and not expecting me or anyone else to do your job. keep your sexual preferences to yourself, live your life however you want at home. don’t bring it to work. military or otherwise.

    • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

      Wrong, James. Most of the discriminees are outed by heteros. We see much-publicized cases where a gay man “tells” in protest against the rule, but those are exceptions to the reality. The majority are outed by tattle-tales. The question is, why? Why would an honorable man exploit another honorable man’s sexual preference knowing it would result in dishonorable discharge?
       
      Lesbians deal with not only genderism, but good old-fashioned sexism. By far, these women are discharged after some man puts an unwelcomed hit on her, and is miffed to find he’s been rebuffed by a lesbian. Shameless revenge.

      • james

        Just curious how you can say that my experiences have been wrong? were you there with me when these things occured in MY life, and jsut how is my opinion wrong? Please explain…

        • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

          I’m sorry, James. I must have worded that poorly. The idea that gays and lesbians are announcing their preferences and getting the boot is what I meant is wrong. It’s incorrect. It’s not true.
           
          These people are performing their job tasks, not expecting anyone else to do their jobs, keeping their sexual preferences to themselves, living their lives however they wish. Sexual preference is, obviously, not something that can be left “at home.” They are discharged because someone else was the “teller.”
           
          Judging what you experience in your own life is totally out of my realm, not to mention none of my business.

          • james

            Thank you for the comments, I have worked with many of all persuasions, and in my experiences, each of the individuals that experienced problems, had been the ones to make an issue of their preferences. Those that did not say anything, but rather just went about their business, did not have the issues. Some even went so far as to tell the others to remain quiet about their preferences. Afew did, others almost demanded that the rest of us give them a wide field because they were special or deserved special rights.

            I am not passing judgement here, but merely stating what has happened in my career. The average person seems not to really care what happens in your bedroom, but rather what is happening on the job, whatever it may be.

      • radmax

        Recent examples?…or soapbox proselytizing. You have the law on your side.

        • radmax

          Hi winnie :)

          • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

            Hi Rad, you handsome devil! :P

  • tiponeill

    i don’t care what your preference may be, so long as yo….
    Perhaps, but the military cares very much and will discharge you if they find out you are gay, which is the problem with the discriminatory DADT policy.

    • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

      Exactly.

  • mорское

    dadt ………. problem? with a few screamers and the liberal agenda yes …….. with mainstream mil, to include all preferences, no.

    • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

      A hundred years ago, women did not have the right to vote. A few “screamers” and a liberal agenda cured that inequity.
       
      The difference is?

      • radmax

        or smoke…two inequities more than made up for in the last hundred years. Gays in the service never bothered me, as long as they didn’t bother me. You seem to think that being gay in the armed forces should be an acceptance of the inevitable. Tell ya what, if the guy or gal performs their duties without crying …’phobe ‘about every inequity in the service(yes there are many, not even linked to sexual orientation) then who gives a flyin’…care. Who are you, Carrie Nation? Are you the spokeswoman for the gay alliance?…or just another person with an axe to grind about something they know squat about.

        • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

          Just a person who cares about people. The reason I bring up these questions is to find out the experiences of others  so I can better understand the situation.
           
          BTW, Carrie Nation is dead.

          • radmax

            Caring is good. Speaking for others…who can speak for themselves…
            Sorry to hear about Carrie, I’ll tip one to her memory.

      • mорское

        there is no prob in the mil concerning gays or heteros …….. for the vast majority of any group. the prob is coming from that irritating lone fly that just keeps things muddied and the slop jar politician only interested in scoring points. they both need swatting.

        then there are the ones that can’t cut it and use their whatever as the excuse.

  • micmarine

    9 Operations in the Nam. 2 Tours. Embassy Duty. Provost Internal Investigations. Tons of Ribbons for valor and never once did I care which swingin’ d- – k was gay. And believe me, we know who was!  The whole damn thing is a concocted  by a bunch of poppycock arranged by some REMF’s in the Air Force. They got some of those died in the wool Evangelical Officers  who want to foster THEIR OWN Jesus upon the whole universe—before we are raptured with Sarah and Glenn.
    They have seen the burning bush, and believe that God has told them to clean up the Armed Forces.  Winnie is right on… give em’ an Article 15 , for mal-treatment and tell them to go join Army and do some fighting.
    Half of Ceasar’s Army was gay for cryin’ out loud. And man did they party down!  After they won!
    And of course while our REMF’s  are outing everyone,  lets go back and re-visit the life of J.Edgar Hoover. Gay as Liberace!  Two lovers . Wonder where the FBI would have gone if they had then, and now,  implemented the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.
    Let’s get back to the Lacy Petersen trial and other important national problems!

    • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

      Ooo-rah! Improvise, adapt, and overcome!

  • http://livingwithptsd.yuku.com/ winnieo

    Oh, James! Your experiences are about civilian life,  where there is no “don’t ask, don’t tell” rule, right?
     
    I understand exactly what you mean. I suppose most people have had a work experience with someone who expects “whatever” because of “whatever.” Comes up a lot with power elite white guys.
     
    The problem with DADT rule  is the rule itself.  I’d like to find someone who can argue FOR the rule just to hear the reasoning.
     
    I guess no such person exists in “real life.”
     
    Nice conversing with you.

  • Ado

    If they(gays) are creating such controversy, simply stop taking them as enlisted personnel or in the R.O.T.C., or at the military academies.  The military does not operate under the same rules as a civilian corporation.  Estimates of practicing gays in the general population are in the 4%  range.  Their absence will have less than zero impact on the U.S. military and depending on which survey you choose to believe,  their absence may have a positive effect on morale, all the way from the unit, platoon, brigade, battalion, right to the top and the Joint Chiefs.  Why let political correctness have any impact on military ops, real or imagined? Eliminate the question…

     
    As an aside, The Roman Catholic Church is drumming homosexuals out of seminaries, and not accepting gay applicants,  in order to end the widespread  homosexual pedophile problems in the Church which has drained finances and resources, and forced entire dioceses into bankruptcy.  The Church did not want to believe homosexuals in their priestly ranks was a problem either, just like the politically correct libs don’t care to admit it’s a genuine military problem.

«
»