Who will stand up against the racism in Arizona?
by Hugh Holub on Jun. 28, 2010, under politics
Interesting to read the reaction to the concept of deporting Governor Brewer. Is that any more outrageous than folks suggesting deporting the 12 million illegal aliens in the country?
The problem with SB 1070 and the basics of existing immigration law are that (a) it is actually difficult for most people to prove we are citizens if we don’t carry a passport around inside the country, and (b) those suspected of being inside the country illegally do not have the same basic legal rights one has in dealing with basic criminal charges.
In a mass deportation climate, a whole lot of legal Americans would likely get booted out of the country. Do you who distrust government really think the federal government could pull off a mass deportation scheme without making a lot of mistakes?
The climate of racial hostility, demonizing Mexicans, and demanding all sorts of draconian solutions reminds this writer of the Bisbee Deportation of 1917. A vigilante mob rounded up over 1,000 mine workers suspected of belonging to the International Workers of the World union, marched them to the rails, loaded them into box cars, and dumped them in the New Mexico desert.
The comparison of the hostile climate about immigration issue being fostered by Brewer, Pearce and Arpaio to Nazi Germany are, in my mind, absolutely correct.
Visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington, which is organized chronologically, and as you walk through the first part of the 1930’s, substitute the words “wet back” with the words used to demonize Jews. The National Socialist political party gained power by blaming all of Germany’s problems on the Jewish community, and we all know what happened as a result. I frankly do not see much difference between Arpaio in his brown uniform and his predecessors in Germany.
What is particularly interesting to me is the reality that few Arizonans are directly impacted by undocumented workers. How many of you are willing to go out in the fields in 100 degree weather and chop cotton?Maybe you should signup for Take My Job.
Down here by the border we are very directly impacted by illegal crossing of the border by drug smugglers armed with automatic weapons. That is an extremely serious problem and demands immediate attention by concentrating the Border Patrol at the darned border.
The impact of workers and their families crossing the border is vastly different. We get a lot of litter. We have to deal with crossers who are dehydrated because they don’t realize the hell they are walking into in the borderland deserts. And every time one goes out into the countryside there is the nasty risk of coming across a dead crosser.
To get a real idea of life on the border please see “Living on the Border“, a film made by Arivaca resident Karl Hoffman.
And yes indeed the cartel has turned to kidnapping workers and using them as drug mules at gunpoint. So are the victims the problem as Governor Brewer suggests? Or is the kidnapping part of that other problem of assault weapon armed thugs operating freely in our borderlands because the United States utterly fails to provide a secure border?
Then there are the “rape trees’” along the border. If women were routinely raped near Tucson or Phoenix I suspect there would be an enormous outcry. But since the victims are undocumented alien women, you who support SB 1070 seem unconcerned about this human rights abomination inside our country. Darfur is right here.
When you demonize a group of people and take away their human rights, you allow the worst of human nature to become acceptable. And that is exactly what is going on in Arizona today.
Back to the Holocaust Museum experience. As part of your journey you enter a room with a wall of remembrance for those who stood up against the Nazis. There are very few names on that wall. And that is from the whole world. Few stood up against the effort to first demonize the Jewish population and stop what became genocide of not just Jews, but Gypsies, Catholics, homosexuals and a lot of other people.
We vowed “never again”.
And this time around a lot of people are standing up against the effort to “solve” Arizona’s “problem” with what is absolutely and unequivocally the same crap that over and over again spawns human rights violations and left unstopped, loading people up in railroad cars and sometimes genocide.
We will not let July 29th become Arizona’s version of “krystallnacht”.
Why are you so afraid of us? Why are you so afraid of people who simply want to work and feed their families? Why can’t you agree to some legitimate way for workers to work?
America is great because of our diversity. Why are you afraid of that diversity?
And remember, when they come for you, because someone in power has decided you are also a threat to their control, ask who will be left to stand up for you.
Never again.
June 28th, 2010 on 6:29 am
this immigration law is not about race !!!!!!!! it is about bringing drugs and crime into the area!!!! stop all of your whining about race!!! if you want to live in this country, do it the right way and get docummented like millions of others have!!! live honestly and you will have little to no problems. doesnt matter where you work, do it legally!!! congrats to those in charge who had the cojones to make a stand and do something for the greater good of their community!!! much respect to you.
June 28th, 2010 on 6:34 am
Huge demand to live in U.S. part of illegal immigration problem
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/28/20100628legal-immigration-high-demand.html
Then support immigration law reform.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:11 am
I agree with all you have written about this law. This Law does absolutely nothing about the borders. If most people had red it they would realize it only gives law enforcement the right to play god and can effect any person in Arizona who happenes to be caught with out proof they are here legally. Keep up the good work
June 28th, 2010 on 8:35 am
I read it- I’m afraid I’m not sure how to have RED it though, that’s a color….. hhhmmmmm
June 28th, 2010 on 9:52 am
do you carry a wallet? i dont know anyone who walks out of the house without identification, do you? this is about the Law if you dont like the laws of this country then move but if you live here then live by the laws of this country. how ignorant people are that think you will be arrested just for walking down the street stop listing to the people that have no idea what they are talking about and actually read the law then comment. ..
June 28th, 2010 on 10:59 am
David, you are a complete and utter fool, like so many of the other commentors on this blog. You know quite well that perceptions matter more than realities. This law does not allow racial profiling, but the perception that it will lead to blatant racism is what people are responding to.
June 29th, 2010 on 11:29 am
The id you carry around would not suffice to prove you are legally here unless you are carrying your passport…and the right to freely travel inside our country is one of those things that is being threatened if we all have to carry our passports.
June 28th, 2010 on 9:58 am
It’s a good thing this fool Holub has morons like Nick Denton to agree with him, otherwise he would be totally ignored.
Denton – it’s read, not red…………it’s affect, not effect……………it’s happens, not happenes.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:14 am
Jade, how can people come here “legally”? Do you know? How can an unskilled individual that lives in poverty on a third world country can migrate legally to work in the US? without having an immediate family member to sponsor them.
Have you asked yourself that?
June 28th, 2010 on 9:47 am
this is ridiculas if you have a divers licence you are not illegal that is pretty simple the ignorance of the pepole who argue against this law amazes me. This law is the law of the land and if you dont like it then go to mexico there imigaration laws are much better than ours. how can you defame someone for doing their job?
i guess some people just believe that laws just dont apply to them if they dont like the law?
June 28th, 2010 on 6:38 am
Undocumented people is a violation of Federal law. I don’t care what color you are,it is illegal. The problem is hispanics think as soon as they cross the border they are entitled to the rights of an a true American citizen. They say they just want to come here to work,but the fact is they come here as drywallers,landscapers,and maids. These positions do not afford them their breeding practices they perform,end of story.
June 28th, 2010 on 8:39 am
Wow, I guess we need another law to control “their breeding practices”, huh, Jason?
June 28th, 2010 on 6:41 am
Comparing SB1070 to what happened in Germany is completely inaccurate. You only critisize the new law but cannot offer a better alternative. And amnesty is NOT a better alternative. Something needs to be done and I support Jan Brewer for making the stand (most Arizonan’s and other American citizens across the nation also support this law).
June 28th, 2010 on 7:40 am
And most have not even read it and don’t realize that it does nothing to solve the real problem. It only provides a huge window of opportunity to people like Sherriff Joe to abuse the system when they( legal or illegal) can not prove they are here legally. If you were stopped and did not have any I D because you had forgotten it or it had ben lost. How could you legally prove your status. You would be presumed guilty. Not the American way.
June 28th, 2010 on 10:14 am
This is a crock; the new law does NOT target anyone specifically for anything other than being in this country ILLEGALLY! If there is no contact with law enforcement there is no immigration check. One is NOT going to be stopped walking down the street to “get ice cream” because you are darker than the guy next to you! Articles like this are uninformed propaganda pieces by those who favor amnesty! If you don’t want to be subjected to an identification check, DON’T BREAK THE LAW! It never ceases to amaze me that people will defend the exploitation of an entire race and then call those who want to STOP that exploitation NAZZIS! I am sure all you libertards would love for us to just shut up and allow you to keep forcing these people to work for LESS than minimum wage, being abused and exploited by their “employers”, and subjected to absolutely inhumane treatment by the smugglers you defend so rabidly. How gracious of you!
June 28th, 2010 on 12:16 pm
So let’s say you are stopped. Say for running a red light. the cops asks you for your license, registration and insurance. All OK so far? Any problems with this yet?
You don’t have your license, but the car has its registration and insurance . . . all in your name and you tell the cop your name and your social security number (yes, Virginia, I think all Americans of driving age have that number memorized). the cop goes back to his car and runs the info through the computer. You didn’t lie to him, so it all checks out and he comes back and gives you a citation for running the light and not carrying your DL and you are on your way.
But let’s say it wasn’t your car? then you had better hope your friend has it insured and registered because as the operator, you are responsible for it while driving.
The thing is, your scenario of being deported because you left your ID at home is a BIG FAT LIE. It isn’t going to happen. If we have mass deportations of illegals, then how are legals going to be deported? Everyone will be checked and cross-checked on the computer rolls.
Are you open-borders folks REALLY this stupid?
June 29th, 2010 on 11:32 am
Actually I have previously proposed a comprehensive immigration reform package
http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2010/05/10/we-need-immigration-law-reform-opinion/
June 29th, 2010 on 1:43 pm
Hugh, your 10 point plan is well-written.
My only concerns would be:
The costs and logisitics of administering such a plan. (potentially offset by the reduced cost of illegal immigration). It would be a huge beauracracy, and we all know how well the goverenment does with managing those.
But more importantly is the eventual proliferation of the govt issued cards and required reporting, to natural citizens. That is entirely too “Big Brother-esque”, and sets off my tinfoil hat alarm. That is a very slippery slope. I can forsee a situation where a “well-meaning” politician makes the jump to requiring the same for all citizens, and at that point, any semblance of freedom is gone.
June 28th, 2010 on 6:54 am
Okay – this may sound like a “straw man” but i assure it is the real point. Living on a ranch in the early 70′s we had a group of Mexican folks who were not here legally. They did most of the hard work and sent most of their meager wages home. Occasionally they were deported and back within a week. We took care of their stuff and did their work until they returned. I, for one, was very glad when they found their way back. So what? The difference between then and now. The drug trade. The reds have allocated another $55o million to border protection. Stupid. Decriminalize marijuana regulate and tax it. Turn a net loss into a net gain and stop the war on our border. If you don’t believe me, look at the historical facts regarding the repeal of the alcohol prohibition and crime. S0me of the “illegals” are still my friends and they don’t smuggle drugs. They’re just trying to feed their families like the rest of us.
And as Forest Gump said… and that’s all i have to say about that!
June 28th, 2010 on 10:18 am
If they are “just trying to feed their families” they should make changes in their OWN country so they can, not come feed their families on our dime! I too am “just trying to feed my family”; but that would be easier if there weren’t 5 Illegals out there trying to get my job for half the pay driving my paycheck into the gutter!
June 28th, 2010 on 12:19 pm
So your solution is to open up the border and to legalize drugs and then everything will be all cool.
Ain’t you the smartest guy in the world?
June 28th, 2010 on 6:56 am
If people in the US weren’t drug users (and it must be to a huge degree) then the cartels wouldn’t have any business here. I say legalize drugs, it would end the power and control wherever it may be??? and get rid of Brewer and Arpaio (they must be spending too much time together, wink, wink). They are proud to be racists and I don’t want these people in charge in our state. It’s embarrassing and just plain wrong. Everytime she opens her mouth I wish her false teeth would fall out!
June 28th, 2010 on 7:00 am
Just because your hispanic all of Mexico should be allowed to come to america illegally on american taxpayers hard earned dime.Totally rediculous!Who is the rasist when all your thoughts and ideas are based on race.It’s not whats best for you and your race but what is best for AMERICANS PERIOD.Wake up!
June 28th, 2010 on 7:00 am
The writer of this article seems to be under the assumption that all illegal immigrants are Mexican. The writer also seems to feel that sending someone back to their home country if they are here illegally is equal to the killing and torture of millions of Jews. Repulsive comparison. We are a nation of laws. As a U.S. citizen we have certain rights and obligations. Disregarding the laws you don’t like or think shouldn’t be applied to any group is not one of those rights. No one is above the law. We often see examples of people that think they are. In many cases they, ironically, turn to the legal system for protection.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:04 am
ANYONE WHO DOESN’T THINK THAT IT’S ABOUT RACE ARE THE BIGGEST FOOLS WALKING!!! NOT TO MENTION YOU THINK IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENED IN GERMANY?!?!? GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE QUICKSAND!!!! THE WRITING IS CLEARLY ON THE WALL!!! THIS IS THE SAME STATE THAT BANNED MLK DAY FOR GOD’S SAKE AND YOU THINK THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY AS WELL AS THE WORLD ARE TO TAKE BREWER, PEARCE, AR”PIEHOLE” AND ARYANZONA SERIOUSLY?!?!? YOU PEOPLE HAVE GONE COO-COO FOR COCOA PUFFS…OH I FORGOT…YOU HATE ANYONE OR ANYTHING THAT ISN’T WHITE!! AND “ILLEGALS” IS NOTHING MORE BUT A HIDDEN CODE TO HIDE YOUR TRUE RACISM!! WHETHER YOU LIKE OR NOT THIS ARTICLE WAS ACCURATE TO THE LETTER AND YOU CAN’T STAND IT BECAUSE YOU’RE BEING CALLED OUT ON YOUR OWN PREDJUDICE AND HATE!!!
June 28th, 2010 on 10:43 am
Beautifully said.
June 28th, 2010 on 10:45 am
Its great to know that at least one person here understands the true nature of the issue.
June 28th, 2010 on 5:04 pm
Only white people are predjudice? I don’t think so. I never see a white person pulling out the worn out race card. By the way being an American is not just being white.
June 29th, 2010 on 1:01 pm
1) ALL CAPS makes you look like a petulant child.
2) MLK day was reinstated at the expense of Columbus day. I am of Italian descent, and that was the only day that I had to honor my Italian ancestry. All of you who wanted MLK day are RACIST!!! (pretty stupid right? but its ok when it furthers your agenda du jour I guess..)
3) Calling people names, and making little puns out of their names…well see #1.
4) Not all hispanics, and not all immigrants, condone breaking the law. Your assertion that only white people endorse this legislation is patently false. (ironic for someone who calls themself “thetruth”)
Please attempt a coherent, well-thought-out, reply that does not include name calling, race, or the use of ALL CAPS.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:09 am
Comparing SB1070 to Nazi Germany is pure stupidity. I have not seen or read anything coming from the meadia stating. \ Illegal immigrants are being rounded up, loaded onto trains, taken to concentration camps and gased to death. The federal government has in place a FEDERAL LAW, our government refuses to enforce the law. Some including Obama say the law is broken. Well, if it is broken fix it. UNTIL THEN ENFORCE THE LAW THAT IS IN PLACE. I am sick and tired of government officials picking and choosing what law they want to enforce. After all they took an oath of office to defend our country and enforce the laws of our land. If they do not want to enforce the laws of our land they have violated the oath of office. Questions for all ? If an elected official knowingly refuses to enforce a written federal law, have they violated their oath of office ? Can these elected officials be charged with a federal crime ?
June 28th, 2010 on 7:21 am
What we have seen that Sherrif Joe has been doing, is nothing to what he will be doing if this law stands. If all the personell border patrol and local law enforcement were put on the border stopping the drugs and keeping the border secure we would not have the problem
June 29th, 2010 on 11:33 am
pay attention to the creation of the climate in Germany during the early 1930′s…and how are you going to deport 12 million people? Fly them back?
June 29th, 2010 on 12:31 pm
Hugh, thats an apples to oranges comparison. Not at all pertinent to the issue at hand, but thrown out to elicit an emotional response as a distraction from the lack of any actual logical reply.
When you and others throw out that type of nonsense, it basically means that you have no reasonable response; that you’ve reached the end of your ability to argue the issue rationally.
It’s the same thing we see from everyone when they realize that their argument is specious, but have so deeply conditioned themselves to think that they are right, that they cannot admit that they are wrong, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
You and others are really doing a disservice to the very people that you alledgedly “champion”. By promoting the feeling within that community that lawlessness is OK, you encourage more lawlessness, instead of encouraging LAWFUL action. I have asked this question before on this blog, and never received a response…What have you done to assist these people IN their homeland? Have you gone there and railed against their government corruption? Have you taken up arms against the cartels, and fought for true democracy IN MEXICO?
I mean, that is the root cause, is it not? Mexico cannot provide adequately for its citizenry, and they are forced seek sustenance here. How many of your “constituents” can honestly answer that question? I think you will agree that it is very few. Afterall, it is much easier to sit in your office and tap on the keys of the computer, than to affect real change in the real world. Besides, you’d probably be arrested in Mexico for entering illegally. ( they have laws against that you know…)
Ask yourself this. What is the end game? What do you and the “pro-illegal” crowd consider to be the ultimate solution to this issue? Not some “pie-in-the-sky” fairytale about everyone on earth holding hands drinking Coke, and signing Kumbaya, but a REAL solution?
Dissolution of the border completely? Assimilation of Mexico into the United States? Dissolution of the Union and assimilation by Mexico?
Sure it’s easy to throw rocks and imply that pragmatists are racist, morally bankrupt, or evil, but at some point you have to come to the realization that States have borders, and they exist for a reason.
Your (collective) race baiting undermines any moral high-ground that you think that you have. It demeans you, and the people that you “represent”.
Stop petting the rabbits Lennie.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:18 am
If my support od SB 1070 implies that I am somehow a racist then please clarify what race an “illegal immigrant” is.
June 29th, 2010 on 1:02 pm
When you say “illegal immigrant”, it is the same as when the demented old codger Ronnie Reagan said “Welfare Queen”. It is clear who you are talking about, though you give yourself enough plausible deniability to cover your tracks and avoid admitting, even to yourself, the true nature of your prejudice.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:21 am
Deportation is not about race, it is about status as a citizen. You either are or your are not. If you are not, you do not belong in this country. Period. It is not about ‘whites’. This country is made up of many colors who are citizens. No race is being singled out, it just happens to be that the majority of offenders of our immigration laws are Mexicans.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:25 am
The view of the pro-illegall immigration crowd seems to be “don’t blame the person breaking the law, blame society for enforcing the law”.
June 29th, 2010 on 11:36 am
not being pro illegal immigration…facinbg reality that because INS did noit track foilks who got in legally, you now have 6 or so million in the country illegally…and since we did not come up with a workable worker visa program got the rest of the problem…so tryuing to fix it is not being pro illegal immigration.
I have also come down pretty hard on enforcing the border at te border to stop ALL illegal crossing.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:33 am
Why is it that people keep confusing human rights with legal rights? If you are in ANY country when you are not suppposed to be, you are breaking the law and will be deported. It does not matter if it is the US or England or Mexico or Singapore, you will be arrested and later sent to your home counrty of Nationality. Why do people think that it is alright to compair illegal imigrants to holocaust victums or SB1070 to Hitler?! It is insulting to the jews and the gypsies to compair them to persons in breaking our laws, taking advantage of our systems and way of life. Shame on you! The leap between the two is so outragous . Stop trying to make a sympathy point and stick to the real issue here.
There are too many people in our counrty who do not have a LEGAL right to be, who are continuing to come here and something has to be done to stop it.
Why are people not going in large numberes illegaly to Mexico or Canada. Canada is supposed to have to the wonderful free healthcare system so many want to insitute in our nation, the low cost of living and beautiful weather should be drawing people south. The reason US citizens aren’t crossing illegaly- they know the stiff consequennces if caught. So if we want to visit/work either direction, we arrange our paperwork ahead of time. The same should be true of our counrty. Peple should know that there are consequences to entering undocumented and the consequenses should be stiff enough to make people stop and reconsder.
It is a shame people crossing illegaly die in the desert every dayfor various readons. It makes me very sad to see the reports of the dangers and violence. They are not all mexican (some are Chineese,Arabic, South American.. ) and they might not be out in that desert if they knew there was no place for them with out documentation when they got where they were heading. It is our humanitarian responsibility to prevent them from being there in the first place. Placing water out there has the same effect as handing condoms out in school- they think- I might as well, it’s safe. Amnisty has the same effect- if I sneak in, get there and wait it out I could become a citizen someday. It’s breaking laws, lying and stealing. It’s a slap in the face to every one who has taken the time and responsibility to enter correctly, study and work hard , pay the fees and become a citizen the correct way. It tells all those people that they wasted their time, energy and resources.
Stop with the scare tactics! This is not about demoralization of a people, it is not about race or human rights or the cost of fruit. If you are in AZ and have a legal right to be and are not breaking laws- No one is going to come for you.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:48 am
I think your use of logic against the pro-illegal immigrant crowd will go unheeded. The common theme of the pro-illegal immigrant supporters is to label SB 1070 supporters as “racist”, “full of hate”, “holocaust supporters”, etc. so completley defies logic and common sense that it is laughable.
June 28th, 2010 on 12:47 pm
You make very good points but I must agree with Tim, your use of logic will go unheeded by the pro-illegal immigrant crowd. SB 1070 is clearly not in their favor, so it is immediately denounced as “racist” even though it is not really based on race. SB 1070 is based on THE LAW.
Also, I think it must be an insult to any holocaust survivors or their relatives that this law is being compared to the actions of Nazi Germany. The victims of the holocaust were not in violation of any laws, they were the victims of hateful propoganda and true racism. Americans are not looking to eliminate illegal immigrants from the face of the earth. We simply want the people who occupy this great nation to abide by its laws.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:44 am
Hey Hugh: I don’t want to alarm you, but some of my friends in the rail industry are telling me that Sheriff Joe is starting to order hundreds of boxcars to be delivered to Phoenix starting August 1.
Better tell your amigos to be ready to travel south.
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
June 28th, 2010 on 7:45 am
VERY GOOD TIM REEVES !!!! The person breaking the law turns EVERYTHING around and plays the part of the victim. The law breakers want us to beleive law enforcement officials are the criminals. Bottom Line, illegal is illegal !!! Get a dictionary and look up the word illegal. Illegal > Not legal, contrary to law,unlawful Illegally > In a illegal manner.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:46 am
The writer says how many of you want their jobs? That’s not the issue. The issue is they’re here illegal, they receive food stamps, drain our medical and education systems, one in five is a criminal, that’s 20%. The issue is they don’t pay for these services like citizens do with their hard earned tax dollars. Time to put a stop to it, deport them and seal the border. That is the only cure on the horizon for our economic crisis. By the way, before the law AZ law enforcement stopped them, determined they were illegals and called the border patrol to pick them up; after a wait of three or four hours they were turned over to the Feds. Difference is now local law enforcement can arrest and deport them. Saves on man hours/tax dollars. So much bull about how it is going to be racist. It is not, nothing changes except the waste of dollars and waiting for the border patrol to pick them up. Crawl back under your rock Mr. Holub, you don’t know what you’re talking about!
June 28th, 2010 on 7:58 am
To compare the Holocaust to this issue IS AN ABSOLUTE INSULT to the me!!! My Dutch (yes ingorants – Dutch were in the camps) Jewish mother that was put into a concentration in Grongingen Holland (Speilburg or history does not write about this camp) She spent 3 years there and weighed 85 pounds and lost all her teeth there. My father lived nearby and married her and told me the Nazis starved the residents also (another “missing” history lesson). They immigrated to Canada in the mid 1950′s and YES learned english, (my Mother had grade 5 education) worked and were part of the Canadian society UNLIKE OUR SOUTHERN ILLEGALS. All of you that compare these actions to the Nazis movements can GO TO HELL! Get educated, speak English, emigrate here properly like I did and quite costing us citizens taxpayer money! My parents if alive would SPIT IN YOUR FACES YOU IGNORANT BASTARDS for referencing this action to Nazi occupation!
June 28th, 2010 on 9:07 am
It’s too bad, after all their ordeals your parents didn’t see fit to teach you something about the importance of tolerance and understanding as a way of avoiding another holocaust.
June 28th, 2010 on 9:21 am
The unknown cartoon “Marxist” sniper strikes again.
June 28th, 2010 on 12:18 pm
Since you want to play the Holocaust Card I will assist you with your twisted opinion while you take off your rose-tinted glasses. In the 1920’s Germany was in economic strife with high unemployment (USA- now). The Nazi party forced there way into the political system in Germany lead by Hitler. Germany forced their way into Holland, Austria and others countries and made the German language a second language (Spanish). The Nazis brought in thousands of their own citizens to help with the unemployment situation (Mexico- Central America). They installed Federal representatives in the country governments that represented the Germanic viewpoints (Senators Martinez, Salazar, Mendez, and Baca). The Nazi put puppets in the cities governments such as in Amsterdam and Rotterdam (L.A. Avondale). The Nazi “boycotted” non-Germanic and occupied countries items (L.A. San Francisco, Oakland). The Nazis brought in Germanic reading material and Germanic newspapers (USA- Libraries) Sound familiar? Looks to me that the “Hispanic movement” is paralleling the Nazi movement-not visa versa. As for tolerance. My parents and my multi cultural neighbors learned English and assimilated themselves into a community unlike the majority of our southern cousins. If you wish to visit a “tolerate area” visit Montreal. Bring along a load of your southern friends. The only thing that the French-Canadians hate more than English Speaking people is those that speak another language. Better yet visit some of Vancouver’s’ suburbs such as Surrey. Not only do you need to be East-Indian you better be in the same religious caste system. Incidentally since you have your Marxist photo remember that Marx and Lenin killed more people in their reigns than the entire worlds’ wars over the past 200 years. Shows your tolerance. My final suggestion is go back to U of A and ask for an educational refund and do not pollute a progressive gene pool fool.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:58 am
It is a mistake to assume the solution is solely to enforce the border. That is comparable to a shop owner concerned about shoplifting putting store security only at the entrance of the store with the bright idea that they will just not let any shoplifters into the store in the first place.
June 28th, 2010 on 8:00 am
I am not against immigration. I AM against illegals crossing our
borders and assuming because they do they are entitled to whatever
an American Citizen is entitled to. Each country has its own laws
regarding immigration. If I, as an American Citizen go to Mexico, I
must have some kind of ID with me. What is so terrible about asking
a person to idetify oneself here in the United States or specifically
Arizona. If one goes overseas one must also have an ID.
My feeling is that those who oppose SB 1070, or for that matter,
the Federal Law on immigration, are those who are illegals or those
who have family members here who are illegal. Let those illegals go back to their country of origin and apply for legal entry. Once granted, they would have the proper paper work, if questioned, and there would
be no need for them to be afraid if they are asked to show it.
I, for one, would not object to carrying around my birth certificate
if my drivers license is not sufficient. Come on now folks, do you really want to continue to support people who are not here in this country
legelly? I have worked all my life, I still do at age 82. Would I be able
to go into the hospital for free? I don’t think so. Therefore, I do not
condone free anything or welfare for those people who are not here legally regardless of their origin, color, or whatever. I am not a racist!
I just believe that one should keep and respect the laws of the land
whether made by the state or Federal means.
June 28th, 2010 on 8:14 am
I find it fascinating how easily people can be maneuvered into thinking a certain way. It was a brilliant move by the Arizona legislators and the governor to move your focus away from our 2.2 billion dollar deficit. Our schools are falling apart, our roads are crumbling, and major services are taking a big hit (Public safety). Yet you have been fooled into thinking that immigrants are to blame. This law does nothing to stop illegal immigration. All this law does is take money from already cash strapped municipalities to pay for training public safety officers to do what they already do. People will use the argument that our financial bind is due to immigrants using our services. There have been several studies (the latest on Fox Business news) that immigrants bring in a positive cash flow to the states they reside in. History does repeat its shelf; all countries throughout history that have faced difficulties usually finding a scapegoat to blame for their ills. Immigration is a problem, but is it at the top of the list, the most pressing one that needs to be solved now. We need to hold our Arizona legislators and governor accountable. They need to stop playing the shell game and work on solving the state’s budget problems.
June 28th, 2010 on 7:30 pm
Excellent points!
June 28th, 2010 on 8:20 am
There in no comparison between enforcing a law and using the law to profile a certain group. I am patronizing you now go to a dictionary and look up enforce and profile and you will see there is a big difference. Get it through your color blind brain immigration reform is acceptable by all, profiling is not. Let the Federal Government handle it they will eventually get to it. Governor Bruja pulled a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, she is taking advantage of the full agenda this adiministration has to deal with, now they have this SB1070 law on theri agenda. Gov. Bruja and her draconian generals will be soundly defeated.
When VP Biden said that this young President would be tested, he was not talking about Americans. What he failed to realize was that America is filled with the offspring of the hateful Nazi Germans. We should be profiling those that look like Timothy McVeigh, murdering small children. Yet, this man is seen as a hero by these extremists. Why because he took on the Federal Government they don’t care if children were invlolved. This extremist is a hero because his race is the right color and white is right as most of them would say. They are especially crazier now since we have a President whom they think is inferior.
Mr. Clinton with his comment about serving him coffee 2oo years ago. Well if Mr. Clinton would go back even farther his kind would be serving the coffee, what an arrogant idiot.
June 28th, 2010 on 8:38 am
I see the need to cut down on illegal immigration. Yet I also agree with a lot of your assertions regarding the demonizing of another group of people. While this kind of behavior often involves the question of race, the heart of the issue is even more basic. It has to do with the extent that we start thinking in terms of “US” versus “THEM” (insert whatever definition of “US” that suits your fancy). We all think this way in varying degrees and I suspect it’s part of an instinctive tribal mentality that we’re born with. In fact, marketers even use this to their advantage in advertising. It’s when we start going too far down this path is when we start seeing trouble (i.e., your examples of Nazi Germany). In fact, I would venture to say that the vast majority of idiocy we see in the world is a direct result of this type of thinking gone awry.
As long as we recognize that this isn’t an issue of US versus THEM, and conduct our dialogue realizing that we’re dealing with fellow humans, we can work toward solutions without the divisiveness that we’re seeing.
Here’s an article that explains a bit of what I was referring to:
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/06/06/25/people_who_drive_silver_or_blue_cars_should_not_read_this.htm
June 28th, 2010 on 10:47 am
no one can make you feel inferior, but yourself.
June 28th, 2010 on 8:42 am
I think many people here can not relate to being a color other that white. You cannot even imagine that you may be asked for identification to prove you are a US citizen. I am an American of Mexican descent. My family has been in this part of the country since the 1700s. As they say the border crossed us. Now the question is what Identification does an American of Mexican descent need to carry to prove he or she is a citizen? Is it a driver’s licenses? I have asked several Border patrol officers and Police officers and was told that a driver’s licenses are not proof of citizenship. (“Anyone can obtain a driver’s license”).Because I speak English without an accent, does that prove I am a citizen? What about elderly Americans of Mexican descent or children. What documentation do they have to carry? If another form of identification is required is it constitutional that I must carry an extra form of ID because of my ethnic background Many people think that only illegal’s we be stopped and asked for identification. How can you tell an illegal from an American citizen?
June 28th, 2010 on 8:44 am
I think most of you would be a lot better off if you spent more time thinking about your own shortcomings and trespasses than you do thinking about who you think is getting away with something you aren’t. At very least, you would have more time to learn to spell or use the spell-check function.
Viva Los Wobblies!
June 28th, 2010 on 7:33 pm
Ditto
June 28th, 2010 on 8:44 am
So, take Race completely out of the conversations and remove all the “Waa-Waa” excuses. Make it mandatory that every person pulled over by “the Law”, or questioned by them, for any reason, be able to prove their legal status in the US. (Allow some time for folks to obtain such ID’s, then enforce it). Even today, if you are pulled over in a vehicle, you must produce a driver’s lic., registration and proof of insurance. I for one would be glad to carry such extra ID, so I could comply with the law. And, I wouldn’t mind doing it if it will help to control illegal immigration.
June 28th, 2010 on 8:23 pm
Chip me!
June 28th, 2010 on 8:51 am
Hugh, You are still and always be an IDIOT!!! I am boycotting your articles……
June 28th, 2010 on 8:56 am
Oh please, stop with all the ridiculous analogies to Nazi Germany. All we are trying to do is get control of our country from being flooded with illegal workers and stop the incredible social and economic burdens it creates. Every other developed country in the world hascontrol of their borders and strict requirements for non citizen workers including carrying papers at all times. If you don’t have control of your borders you are no longer a country. The real underlying story about this is issue is the future environmental destruction we will suffer because of our refusal to take control of immigration. As a country we face enormous challenges on issues such as water scarcity, green energy, energy independence, wilderness preservation, infrastructure projects, etc. Hmmm, let me think. Would these problems be easier to address with a population of 300 million or a population of 600 million? Considering there are hundreds of millions of peoplefrom around the world who would love to come here, I think we had better get control of this or face terrible environmental and social problems. I will give your liberal rant a little more credence when you start complaining about the draconian immigration laws that Mexico inflicts on immigrants from Central America.
June 28th, 2010 on 9:04 am
Oh please, stop with all the ridiculous analogies to Nazi Germany
I don’t think so, OV Dave. The parallels are just too obvious to ignore.
“Only a handful of Germans in the Reich had the slightest conception of the eternal and merciless struggle for the German language, German schools, and a German way of life. Only today, when the same deplorable misery is forced on many millions of Germans from the Reich, who under foreign rule dream of their common fatherland and strive, amid their longing, at least to preserve their holy right to their mother tongue, do wider circles understand what it means to be forced to fight for one’s nationality.”
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
June 28th, 2010 on 7:41 pm
and yet abortion is illegal??? If we have such issues as you state, why do we force people to bring unwanted babies into that situation. It’s all about control and I think people are more concerned about people they cannot control = illegal immigrants. Some people don’t want to share, especially those that have stuff to share??? We are already in a crisis situation and Mexico is worse than we are, they are only trying to survive and as for the cartels, well if Americans didn’t have such an appetite for drugs…
June 28th, 2010 on 9:02 am
Its not about racism, its about the law, stupid! Illegals think the laws don’t apply to them and they can break any and all they don’t like, cuz they are poor, looking for a better live..blah blah blah. We have immigration laws and those who cannot obey them deserve the consequences to be deported. Its not Americas fault that 80% of illegals are Mexicans. I think they should be ashamed of their country for being a toilet of a country in which a third of its citizens don’t even want to be there. America cannot afford to take care of every poor, illiterate person from anywhere in the world just because they can illegally cross our border.
We need to close the Southern border completely until we get this problem under control, extend 287(g) to EVERY police dept in this country, jail all business owners and CEO’s who hire illegals, vigorously enforce our immigration laws and deport all illegals and overstayers. If people cannot obey the laws or go through the proper channels to immigrate, they cannot be allowed to be in this country.
June 28th, 2010 on 9:09 am
This is the most racist article I have read from the Citizen and the Star in a long time. And how convenient that the author does not include the real racist event in our country when during World War 2 any AMERICAN CITIZEN of Japanese descent was hauled off to internment camps, and deprived of all their belongings and property except what they could stuff into a suitcase. How convenient to omit that event. Oh, I guess it was because the perps of that were Democrats.
Wake up Hugh!
June 28th, 2010 on 9:10 am
Leonard J. Pitts Jr. Mcclatchy Newspapers / Miami Herald | Posted: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:00
THE REAL NEWS ! ARIZONA DAILY STAR !
THE REASON THE ILLEGAL’S ARE BRINGING IN THE DRUG’S AT A RAMPID RATE ! AT A PRETTY GOOD PRICE IM SURE !
According to federal figures, blacks and whites use drugs at a roughly equal rate in percentage terms. In terms of raw numbers, WHITES are far and away the biggest users – and dealers – of illegal drugs
WELL I GUESS IF THE NATION SAY’S SO WITH FEDERAL RAW NUMBER’S AND FACT’S !!!
So why aren’t cops kicking THEIR doors in? Why aren’t THEIR sons pulled over a dozen times in nine months?
OH YEAH, THE TUCSON PUBLIC CORRUPTION ( THE LAW BEING PAID )
WE KNOW NOW !
OFFICER DOGWOOD
June 28th, 2010 on 9:13 am
I am offended that anyone would compare 1070 to the Holocaust. Are you saying that the victims of the Holocaust were able to just walk across the border? That the injustice they suffered at the hands of the Germans was because they walked into a country that they had no legal right to be in? The author of this article has offended every victim of the Holocaust and should be ashamed of trying to compare two issues that could not be more different. You truly need to educate yourself on WWII. To the author, I am embarrassed for you.
June 28th, 2010 on 11:20 am
I think - the way the author presented it, and not your misreading and misinterpretation - is a perfectly adaquate comparison (images of Operation Wetback, 1954 are strikingly similar). And if you think Jews are offended, what about Mexicans?
June 28th, 2010 on 9:20 am
The author of this article has offended every victim of the Holocaust and should be ashamed of trying to compare two issues that could not be more different.
Nice try, D, but it’s not gonna work. I can’t speak for Hugh, but for myself, so long as the behavior of yourself and those like yourself is reflective of the intolerant speech of 1930′s Germany, the comparisons are sure to continue.
June 28th, 2010 on 9:26 am
I can’t believe you people are really that stupid.
“Do you who distrust government really think the federal government could pull off a mass deportation scheme without making a lot of mistakes?”
Eisenhower did it (12 MILLION) in the 50′s and he didn’t have computers, the internet, global communications at his fingertips or 1/10th the enforcement resources we have today.
If it weren’t for you whining little children, it could be done as easily as it was done then.
June 29th, 2010 on 7:02 am
So, along with migrants, if we just got rid of the folks on the left, things would be just peachy here?
June 28th, 2010 on 9:41 am
this is the real face of republicans “white trash”
June 28th, 2010 on 9:42 am
ILLEGALS USE THEIR CHILDREN AS PAWNS.
We are all susposed to feel sorry for the children of illegals.
BOTTOM LINE, illegals drag their children with them across the border and want everyone to feel sorry for them. If we say anything regarding children, we are labeled racist.
Illegals are using children as pawns and sheilds against deportation.
It is the illegal that is putting their children in danger. That is right illegals are endangering their childrens lives, and now they want to blame you and me, if they are arrested.
Illegal is illegal, I do not care if you are 100-years ols or 1-day old, illegal is illegal. What don’t these people understand.
June 29th, 2010 on 7:04 am
…illegals drag their children with them across the border…
So, you’re saying that your opinion of migrants would be different if they left their children behind?
June 28th, 2010 on 9:44 am
me and about 750 family members will never,never,never go to white trash arizona amen .
June 28th, 2010 on 9:58 am
please dont!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 28th, 2010 on 5:08 pm
Thank you for the space!
June 28th, 2010 on 9:50 am
to one4u white trash!!!!!!!!!! to HUGH HOLUB KEEP EDUCATING THIS WHITE TRASH STATE(ARIZONA) THANK YOU MR.HOLUB
June 28th, 2010 on 9:52 am
Yes it all fit’s ! Like I mentioned prior to everything back in 2007′. I knew the NAZI”S and there counterpart’s ( Investors ) that were planning this organization for ( Drug Dealing ) and of course know the conversation in talk with them explaining how they ( Have The Government In There Back Pocket ) ! It’s pretty much nationaly open to the public nowe that Arizona has been corrupted by the NAZI groups. It’s federal statistics along with the WHITES for being the most drugged and have the most illegal distribution going on with them.
Yesterday’s breaking news under the racism drug war.
OFFICER DOGWOOD
June 28th, 2010 on 9:53 am
AND TO BILL HILSER !!!!!!!!!!nazi!!!!!!nazi!!!!!!!nazi!!!!!!!nazi!!!!!!!!!>
June 28th, 2010 on 10:01 am
you may be brain damaged, where ever you live please stay there!
June 28th, 2010 on 9:54 am
NOWE *** SPELLING ( NOW ) SORRY
June 28th, 2010 on 9:55 am
Typical Cytozen Lib News,
This reporter is a bigot trying to influence non-suspecting people into further believing this is a race thing. The 1070 Law Mirrors Federal Laws. Its about immigrants who HAVE NO RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY!!@!!
Trust me, if your a WHITE GUY from the UK, without a valid visa… You belong on the Wackenhut Bus! GTF out!
June 28th, 2010 on 10:00 am
Leonard J. Pitts Jr. Mcclatchy Newspapers / Miami Herald | Posted: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:00
THE REAL NEWS ! ARIZONA DAILY STAR !
THE REASON THE ILLEGAL’S ARE BRINGING IN THE DRUG’S AT A RAMPID RATE ! AT A PRETTY GOOD PRICE IM SURE !
According to federal figures, blacks and whites use drugs at a roughly equal rate in percentage terms. In terms of raw numbers, WHITES are far and away the biggest users – and dealers – of illegal drugs
WELL I GUESS IF THE NATION SAY’S SO WITH FEDERAL RAW NUMBER’S AND FACT’S !!!
So why aren’t cops kicking THEIR doors in? Why aren’t THEIR sons pulled over a dozen times in nine months?
OH YEAH, THE TUCSON PUBLIC CORRUPTION ( THE LAW BEING PAID )
WE KNOW NOW !
OFFICER DOGWOOD
June 28th, 2010 on 10:12 am
In the 1950′s/1960′s there was a program where migrant workers (from Mexico and other countries) came to the US to work the crops, etc. The farms provided housing/meals, etc. The workers stayed the season, sent money home, and went home at the end, to come again the following year. I grew up in Central CA during this time and knew these folks. It was a mutually agreeable arrangement. Then someone decided (because of a few bad situations) this was taking advantage, etc. and the program was done away with. These same folks came back as \illegals\ but now were criminals. Now you have 12 million (think about that) 12 million people that in truth are criminals because they are breaking the law. Every hollars, but no one can come up with a solution. Not one of our law makers can offer a solution. To force the law makers to act AZ has had to take a stand. It has to happen. It is a huge elephant sitting at the table and cannot be ignored any more, the good people will continue to suffer and the bad people will continue to profit until a resolution is found. There is not about race. It is about government or lack there of.
June 28th, 2010 on 10:43 am
This is one of the most racists articles I have read in a long time. Openly, degrading legal Americans because they want what they have worked a lifetime to provide for thier families. Only in the southwest am I denied an opportunity for employement because I do not speak spanish. How is that for discrimination. In the future, I will bring a lawsuit against an employer who advertises for such. Why do we reward people for breaking the laws of the US. The law is the law. And appariently, the majority of Arizona CITIZENS agree with the new law about to go into effect. Shut up using the race card. Your only showing your stupidity.
July 28th, 2010 on 2:43 pm
what is the difference between someone hiring an illegal immigrant to work for them (dey tuk ur jebs!!!), and a big american corporation moving their factories to a third world country to avoid having to pay “americans” decent wages and also to avoid having to pay US taxes?
Answer me that, big boy!
Btw, stuff changes all time, have you noticed that……..
I live in TN, you don’t see many “spanish-speaking only” employment setups here, if you hate where you live…………………………..MOVE AWAY!!!!!!
bunch of whiny babies
June 28th, 2010 on 11:00 am
Visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington, which is organized chronologically, and as you walk through the first part of the 1930’s, substitute the words “wet back” with the words used to demonize Jews. The National Socialist political party gained power by blaming all of Germany’s problems on the Jewish community, and we all know what happened as a result. I frankly do not see much difference between Arpaio in his brown uniform and his predecessors in Germany.
THE JEWS WERE CITIZENS OF THOSE COUNTRIES UNLIKE THE ILLEGAL MEXICANS. YOU ARE TYPICAL OF MOST LIBERALS THAT USE 1/2 TRUTHS TO GET YOUR POINT ACCROSS.
June 28th, 2010 on 2:44 pm
Until they took away our citizenship and then loaded us into rail cars….
June 28th, 2010 on 2:53 pm
what citizenship?
June 28th, 2010 on 11:04 am
This racism here in the Southwest is going both way’s. I am a citizen here in town and have been let go from 1 job and have pushed out of 3 jobs in the last 4 year’s because of lack of cooperation with the drug sales in the business. You have more beneath the racism with the job’s here in Tucson. It is more than a side to choose then a placement in the job community. ( Arizona Busniess’s are under investigation ) currently active right now becuse if this. You have a Mexican/American/Nazi war going on with your job’s AND your drug war ! It’s insane.
OFFICER DOGWOOD
June 28th, 2010 on 12:05 pm
So are we saying that if all the people who are here illegally were deported or were here legally that life would be just fine; the state and country would be financially sound; big business would think more of the public good than their profits; our schools would be teaching our children to think critically; the prices of homes and the goods we need like food would be reasonable; we’d be drug free and no one would have to even think of packing heat; George Orwell’s theories would be laughed at; there would be no need for “ethnic” studies; we’d be colorblind; the homeless would all be housed; leftfield would settle in with the right wing?
I ask such a question both seriously and tongue in cheek because it really does seem from the comments I’ve read the past few weeks that there are people who truly feel that if we could just get rid of about ten or eleven million people we’d be living life ever so grandly somewhere Over the Rainbow.
June 28th, 2010 on 2:30 pm
You forgot crime in AZ, that would also stop. Thanks for putting it in a context that maybe some of these “people” will read and understand. There are 2 types of people living in this state, the humane and compassionate, the cold hearted and hateful.
June 29th, 2010 on 5:57 am
I don’t think anyone implied that life would be a perfect Utopia if this Nation were to get a grip on the illegal immigrant problem. Who knows, some things might change for the better, and some might change for the worst. That doesn’t mean we shouldnt confront the problem and at least try. I haven’t really heard many alternate solutions from the pro illegal immigrant crowd. Don’t just spout “Nazi” this, “Nazi” that. What is your idea for helping fix the problem?
June 29th, 2010 on 6:16 am
Believe it or not it is actually possible to be “humane and compassionate” and still be against illegal immigration. Compassion is not reserved solely for those of one view or the other. What about compassion for the thousands of Mexicans attempting to cross the border illegally that are left to die in the desert by human smugglers? Where is the compassion for the people that come here illegally to pursue the American Dream and end up making less than minimum wage and working in intolerable situations? Businesses that hire illegal immigrants face none of the labor related challenges that other businesses face. After all, they know there is a steady stream of new workers coming in and the business owner has NO incentive to make the work environment any better, NO incentive to hand out raises, NO incentive to offer benefits of any kind, and NO incentive whatsoever to listen to the concerns and complaints of their workers. Those of us against illegal immigration want to see this abuse end. If you support illegal immigration how in the world can you support these people being treated worse than cattle. At least we have laws governing the handling of cattle! Don’t try and lecture me about compassion. Compassion is not relegated to a few, to hand out as they see fit.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:45 am
You can’t blame the migrants for being pushed out into the desert; for America’s antipathy against labor; for the greed of capitalists. And you really can’t blame the migrants for creating the conditions that drive them across the border.
June 29th, 2010 on 7:25 am
Nobody is pushing them into the desert. Much more attention needs to be paid to the root issues like the source of Mexicos poverty that causes someone to be so desperate to earn a living that they must leave their own country to do so.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:35 am
leftfield would settle in with the right wing?
Hah! More likely that Joe Arpaio and Russell Pearce would see the error of their ways and publicly beg forgiveness. Also more likely that the scapegoaters would just move on to some other relatively defenseless group of people.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:37 am
What are they “scapegoating”?
June 29th, 2010 on 6:41 am
Perhpas you should read Ernie’s post again. It is clear that some are blaming migrants for everything from America’s lousy health care to bad weather.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:45 am
“Some” people don’t speak for all people. It’s actually quite a melting pot of diverse views on both sides.
June 29th, 2010 on 7:05 am
Hey Lefty: Speaking of bad weather, maybe if we let Sheriff Joe burn some at the stake (in effigy, of course) as an offering to the Rain Gods or play kick ball with the heads of their ritual murder victims, as the Spanish Conquistadors described the Aztecs did to their captives in their pernicious history books, Arizona might be a better place to live, don’t you think?
From how mi amigos, Los Tres Sonorans describe that Nazi, Sheriff Joe and his mounted thugs, those acts fit their M.O. to a T.
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
June 29th, 2010 on 7:36 am
You left out one little important word-”illegal”. It is a mistake to clump the discussion of legal migrants with that of illegal migrants.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:27 am
A question to the passionate pro illegal immigration crowd-On your way to work or to the grocery store how many poverty stricken or homeless people do all of us pass every day? How many homeless Vetrans? How many people lay sick and dying in dark alleys and under bridges? Extending compassion to people here illegally from another country is fine but not at the expense of extending compassion to a fellow citizen who calls this country their home.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:38 am
This argument presumes that compassion in the form of public services would be extended to other invisibles in this country if the migrants weren’t preventing it. I’ve never seen any evidence to support that contention.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:40 am
You presume incorrectly.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:42 am
Where have you looked for this “evidence”?
June 29th, 2010 on 6:56 am
Tim, you should know that it is up to you to look for evidence to support your POV. It’s not my job to refute my own argument. Nor am I going to deconstruct my argument in order to help you refute it. Nonetheless, having lived in this country for more than five decades, I have yet to see anything to make me think that America cares for the less fortunate as well as it cares for the fortunate.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:58 am
I agree with you on that!
June 29th, 2010 on 4:58 pm
Hugh, your plan seems quite good. I would vote for it!
June 29th, 2010 on 5:07 pm
That is the way I wish discussion of this subject could be.
June 29th, 2010 on 6:08 pm
Fly them back, did you say, Hugh? Get serious, my friend!
Der Fuhrer found that boxcars worked quite well, although he was only dealing with 6 million to expel.
Flying would be much too expensive, and we wouldn’t want to crowd the skies and not leave Algore enough room to fly around the world, @45,000 ft., clocking 675 knots, in his private 25-passenger jet, collecting his E600,000 Euro honorariums, now would we.
How’s he going to pay hush-money to all those hotel masseuses now that Tipper kicked him out of the house(s)?
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
June 29th, 2010 on 8:00 pm
The dog sez:
Incidentally since you have your Marxist photo remember that Marx and Lenin killed more people in their reigns than the entire worlds’ wars over the past 200 years
Your Uncle Karl never killed anyone in his life. Now your good friend Vladimir, he never killed anyone either, though he did have authority with the Bolsheviks, who collectively killed some people, it’s true. However, the people killed by the Bolsheviks were scum like counter-revolutionaries, White Army soldiers and foreign adventurers like US mercenaries trying to derail the revolution. The only good reactionary is a dead reactionary, as you are well aware. Anyway, Marx never had a “reign” to speak of, unless you’re talking about him being the King of his tiny London apartment. Lenin hardly lived long enough after the revolution to do much of anything.
I think you’re confusing Marx and Lenin with Stalin, or perhaps with Ronald Reagan or George Bush. Now those guys were big-time killers.