With a climate of hate and easy access to guns for crazy people who else is going to die in Arizona?
by Hugh Holub on Jan. 10, 2011, under politicsPima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said it best:
“The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous, and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital,” Dupnik said Saturday January 8th at a press conference about the shooting of Congresswoman Gabriell Giffords and 18 others.
“We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry,” Dupnik added. “The fiery rhetoric that has taken hold in politics may be free speech, but it’s not without consequences.”
“To try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, has impact on people, especially who are unbalanced personalities to begin with,” Dupnik said.
Dupnik has taken fire for his comments. Wait a minute. When one has a climate of hate and easy access to guns, is there any question why a crazy person goes on a deadly rampage against someone like Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords?
Folks have got to take responsibility for the kind of toxic society we’ve created.
From top to bottom we have become a sick society filled with hatred and armed crazies.
Bloodshed and Invective in Arizona .. New York Times editorial
….[Jared Loughner] is very much a part of a widespread squall of fear, anger and intolerance that has produced violent threats against scores of politicians and infected the political mainstream with violent imagery. With easy and legal access to semiautomatic weapons like the one used in the parking lot, those already teetering on the edge of sanity can turn a threat into a nightmare.
In our political process the opposition is demonized to the point where media commentators such as Glenn Beck can suggest liberals ought to be killed.
Climate of Hate by Paul Krugman
….Where’s that toxic rhetoric coming from? Let’s not make a false pretense of balance: it’s coming, overwhelmingly, from the right. It’s hard to imagine a Democratic member of Congress urging constituents to be “armed and dangerous” without being ostracized; but Representative Michele Bachmann, who did just that, is a rising star in the G.O.P….
….So will the Arizona massacre make our discourse less toxic? It’s really up to G.O.P. leaders. Will they accept the reality of what’s happening to America, and take a stand against eliminationist rhetoric? Or will they try to dismiss the massacre as the mere act of a deranged individual, and go on as before?…
In our political process is it ok for Sarah Palin to put a target on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords?
In our political process is it tolerated when people break their windows of Congressional offices and carry guns into political events as happened to Giffords in the last few months?
Shooting Casts a Harsh Spotlight on Arizona’s Unique Politics NY Times commentary
But after the fatal shooting of six that left Representative Gabrielle Giffords critically injured, Arizona has shifted from a place on the political fringe to symbol of a nation whose political discourse has lost its way.
Tombstone Politics commentary in the NY Times
….The federal judge who was murdered on Saturday morning, John M. Roll, received numerous death threats to him and his family after an Arizona talk-radio station went after him because he dared to let a civil rights lawsuit against the state’s harsh immigration law proceed. He needed marshal protection from these rabid radio-inspired opponents of a free and functioning judiciary.
In Arizona demonizing undocumented Mexicans for political power gains was not only accepted…it worked to elect a lot of people to office who exploit hatred and fear for power.
In Arizona certain interests fought hard to allow anyone to carry a concealed weapon, and to be able to buy semi-automatic weapons with extended ammo clips. What conceivable recreational use does that kind of weapon really have? They are solely for killing people.
We have 6 dead in Arizona because gun rights are more important than human life.
And then we have the suspected shooter Jared Loughner. Obviously from his internet postings a mentally disturbed individual.
Sheriff Dupnik made the point that where a climate of hatred and intolerance is created, that opens the door for armed nut cases to act out their craziness.
And this isn’t the first time a gunman has tried to kill those who serve our country and kill those who have political views opposed to theirs. They try to instill fear in anyone who is willing to step up to the plate for fairness and social justice. But they are often dismissed as crazy.
America is known for killing its leaders….and are we any different than Pakistan right now?
The hate filled rhetoric being used to justify one side’s political agenda has to stop RIGHT NOW !
The media who profit from allowing the Glenn Becks and others who spew hostility must stop exploiting promotion of hatred for their bottom line.
That includes the many websites who allow bloggers and commentors to spew their venom to incite insurrection and violence.
Those who profit from selling guns to crazy people must be stopped.
And we need to really do something effective about our mental health care system beyond cutting budgets because some folks don’t want to pay taxes.
Who else is going to die in Arizona because of our toxic mix of hate and access to guns?
January 10th, 2011 on 6:47 am
Your don’t agree with me subverting the US constitution and promoting socialism in the US == You are filled with hatred and therefore are a threat.
Hitler would be proud of this new generation of Socialists.
“And this isn’t the first time a gunman has tried to kill those who serve our country and kill those who have political views opposed to theirs. ”
BTW according to people who knew the killer, he was a left wing radical. He said he like the Communist manifesto and Mien Kampf (written be a National Socialist) and had a video of the grim reaper burning a US flag on his Youtube channel. Unless you are painting Giffords as a conservative then your argument is false.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:59 am
I would say that your “recovery” is a work yet in progress.
BTW – the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf are on the extreme opposite ends of the left-right political spectrum. Fascism is considered by almost everyone either an extreme right philosophy or a “third way” outside of the left – right continuum. So far, the picture I get from the killers writings and interviews with people who knew him is that his thinking is absolutely incoherent and all over the map politically.
January 10th, 2011 on 7:26 am
“the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf are on the extreme opposite ends of the left-right political spectrum. ”
Only if you are Stalin, since it was he who manufactured this definition to discredit the race based form of socialism found in National Socialism in favor of his class based socialism.
Both systems used identity based politics (communism-class, national socialism-race)
both were centralized totalitarian regimes
both controlled the means of production; national socialism through direction, communism through outright theft.
both killed millions of its citizens
both disarmed its populations before murdering them.
both were anti religious replacing traditional religions with a worship of the state and its leaders.
Yes complete opposites.
here is a more legitimate definition of left right:
Left promotes larger involvement of government in its citizens lives; the extreme of the left is Tyranny.
Right promotes minimal involvement of government in its citizen’s lives; the extreme of the right is Anarchy; the modern anarchists would not fall into this category since they seek to force people to live under their anarchy.
January 10th, 2011 on 12:52 pm
He are some hightlights from the NSDAP aka Nazi party “25 point plan” that they ran on for 1933 until their demise…………sounds kinda SOCIALIST…imagine that…
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11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.
The breaking of the slavery of interest
12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
January 10th, 2011 on 10:33 am
Greatings from germany! First, I would like to say: The action of an individual is based on the motivation of an individual. The generalization in their form is wrong. She is not well-founded and also historic incorrectly and doesn’t apply for the USA. Your diction reminds of the McCharty-Time. Individual persons can never be a threat or danger for the USA. Mass movements and a corresponding in huge numbers impoverishment are necessarily for it just like it in the Germany in 1933 and were the case in the Sowetunion. Cohesion, no division! Thats the first step in the right direction.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:12 pm
Your stupidity is why the rest of the world think the United States are a bunch of red-neck, war loving cowboys.
January 11th, 2011 on 3:31 am
recovering ~ A progressive does not use kill innocent people. Conservatives, like Sarah Palin, used a gun viewfinder to target Cong. Giffords. Palin encouraged her followers to “rearm”. Cong Giffords had others use violence in rhetoric and carry a gun into her town meetings last summer. Conservatives advocate theri right to carry weapons into public places. I could go on, but I am sure you get my point.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:48 am
“That includes the many websites who allow bloggers and commentors to spew their venom to incite insurrection and violence.”
It is good too see the Tucson Citizen is engaging in some self examination.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:49 am
“Those who profit from selling guns to crazy people must be stopped.”
Do you have any evidence that the seller knew the killer was mentally unstable?
It is tiresome that every statment in your article can be refuted.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:54 am
“The media who profit from allowing the Glenn Becks and others who spew hostility”
You should try watching his show sometime. Almost every show he states that violence is not the answer and it would only play into the agendas of people like you. He also continually promotes the idea that it is the up to individual to reform his life, to become honest and honorable.
Saying Glenn Beck promotes violence further reveals your ignorance.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:56 am
Holub writes: “In our political process the opposition is demonized to the point where media commentators such as Glenn Beck can suggest liberals ought to be killed.”
What evidence do you have to support your claim that Glenn Beck suggests liberals ought to be killed?
“In our political process is it ok for Sarah Palin to put a target on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords”
Did she Palin actually overlay riflescope crosshairs over a photo Giffords? I saw a graphic where these symbols were used on a map. When one is “targeting” (focusing) efforts to produce an outcome (in the case of Giffords – defeating her re-election) what symbol is appropriate? Riflescope crosshairs? Bullseye?
“In our political process is it tolerated when people break their windows of Congressional offices and carry guns into political events…”
Lawful private citizens aren’t carrying guns TO political events – they’re carrying them for personal defense during their journey TO AND FROM an event. What should they do with their guns when they arrive at an event? Leave them in their cars where they present a greater risk to the community by being stolen and criminally misused?
“In Arizona certain interests fought hard to allow anyone to carry a concealed weapon, and to be able to buy semi-automatic weapons with extended ammo clips. What conceivable recreational use does that kind of weapon really have? They are solely for killing people.”
Action shooting sports. Self-defense. Hunting*. Competition target shooting. Plinking. They’re not solely for killing people.
*A semi-automatic firearm that uses a detachable magazine can be fitted with a magazine of various ammunition capacity. When hunting a low capacity (5 round) magazine is usually used (required by law in most states). Carrying more ammunition than needed simply translates into more weight to carry in the field and these 5 round magazines are usually loaded with 2-3 cartridges. In recent years the AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle has become the most popular sporting gun in the United States.
Those who profit from selling guns to crazy people must be stopped.
Problem is Jared Loughner had never been legally declared “crazy”.
January 10th, 2011 on 7:47 am
Sheriff Dupnik is right about Arizona
January 10th, 2011 on 8:16 am
Dupnik is right! Now Kyl and local wing-nut Jon Justice are gunning for him.
Great article. Among other things, I also applauded Dupnik today.
http://tucsoncitizen.com/tucson-progressive/2011/01/10/only-in-america-putting-a-positive-spin-on-assassination-video/
January 10th, 2011 on 8:29 am
Great article Hugh, you are 100% spot-on. We have to learn the difference between a disagreement on a point of policy, and hatred of others. Both parties are guilty. Bush was wrongly hung in effigy, and Obama is wrongly and publicly attacked on a daily basis. Let’s stop and think folks. This “outrage” has consequences, most of them negative.
January 10th, 2011 on 9:19 am
Pamela Powers writes: “Dupnik is right!”
Dupnik is also a Democrat whose remarks appear to hypocritically omit hateful rhetoric from the Democrat left.
January 10th, 2011 on 10:18 am
After police searched the shooter’s house, his backyard revealed that he is a Satan Worshipper. This man is deranged, and obviously needed help. This kind of killing has been going on for decades, maybe not in Tucson, AZ but around the country. Dupnik should resign! The Tea Party people are not responsible for the hatred the left has for them. They brought that all on themselves. Making up stories isn’t going to change how things really are. People need to quit mindlessly going through life and think whatever someone says on the left is all truth!
January 10th, 2011 on 10:30 am
Speaking of “making up stories”, do you have a link for that claim that a police search “revealed that he is a Satan Worshiper”? I’ve been following the news stories pretty closely, and have yet any information released from the FBI search of his home other than that he had left handwritten notes in a safe that he had preplanned the assassination attempt. Sounds like nonsense from some right wing blog.
January 10th, 2011 on 10:35 am
This article is exactly the same type of rhetoric that the writer accuses the right wing of inflicting upon the masses the right wing that supposedly influenced this act. It is all Bull &%#! This person who did this act imersed himself in hate writings from Hitler to Stalan to the communist manifesto. He was ill, he was willing to further his illness and anger and sick behavior by his own choices. I am a right winger and I am praying for Congressman Giffords recovery and all those wounded and the families of those killed by a madman.
It is so sad our society cannot recognize that this incident isn’t about politics it is about untreated mental illness and the anger and rage of one unstable human being.
January 11th, 2011 on 3:12 am
Laura ~ Conservative America led by Sarah Palin, Glen Beck and the FOX News Corporation, have promoted vitrol against people who disagree with them. In this Tuscon tragedy alone, the murdered federal judge (raised in my hometown) faced repeated threats of violence because of a decision of his; federal marshals were assigned to him to protect him. The “gun viewfinder” targeted on Congresswoman Giffords by Sarah Palin is now legendary, worldwide. On my local talk radio station, dominated by Limbaugh and his local followers, conservatives were encouraged to shout down and disrupt town meetings held by our local congressperson, and that happened. Thank God that is all that happened, here.
January 10th, 2011 on 10:41 am
If carrying a gun is so important to a persons right to self defence then why is it that nobody defended themselves? There must have been lots of folks assembled who had loaded guns. The shock factor in a situation like this tends to disarm people and the adreniline rush sends most people running for cover. It takes a ton of courage not to run and thank goodness there was some brave people present who managed to disarm this coward before it got worse. But I fail to see how everybody carrying guns for self defense makes us safer
January 10th, 2011 on 11:16 am
That thought crossed my mind. But I doubt if very many people waiting to speak with the Congresswoman were carrying firearms, could be taken the wrong way. But what if some had starting firing back at the shooter? Imagine the pandemonium that would have created?
I’m a gun owner, I bought a shotgun when I moved out to my rural 10 acre property in Cochise County; I never owned a firearm when I lived in the city. So far in 5 years, I’ve fired it twice, to kill rattlesnakes. I would never carry a firearm out in public. They day I feel I need to carry a firearm for protection when I go out to buy groceries is the day I give up on this country.
January 10th, 2011 on 6:31 pm
“If carrying a gun is so important to a persons right to self defence then why is it that nobody defended themselves? There must have been lots of folks assembled who had loaded guns.”
Maybe they were mostly Democrats, and we all know how Democrats feel about carrying guns with them.
January 10th, 2011 on 10:26 pm
It was a meeting for liberal democrats.
January 11th, 2011 on 3:17 am
gordo ~ I agree. With no obvious external threat (as in a war zone), a gun will not make someone safer. A gun holder is just as susceptible to being shot as a peaceful person.
January 10th, 2011 on 12:33 pm
Wow . . . what a difficult time in Arizona history. With a governer that has propelled a fierce rhetoric in immigration for what I feel is a good cause, then to deny transplant surgeries that may have resulted in two deaths and now email reports that Jesse Kelley, (Republican Candidate), held an event … He asked supporters to donate $50 in order to “shoot a fully automatic M16″ to “get on target” and help “remove Gabrielle Giffords.”6
Can Arizona leadership be a leader in how to effectively be a member of the United States of America? Where the poor legal citizens are treated with dignity and politics can have respect for one another without immortalizing violence? Again I agree with the stance that illegal is illegal with immigration, but this event really should not be put only on the shoulders of the shooter but as well Sarah Palin with the obvious target against Gifford (ironic that her handlers deny it was a target), and Kelley’s desire to at all cost win an election.
Tragic, very Tragic. Can Arizona leadership stop acting like high school students and be the adults they are only by age? It is now a personal Boycott of Arizona until its leadership displays more humane and appropriate care of its citizens.
January 11th, 2011 on 12:06 am
” should not be put only on the shoulders of the shooter but as well Sarah Palin with the obvious target against Gifford ”
It is because of ignorant people like you, I am against universal suffrage.
January 10th, 2011 on 1:25 pm
Here is Dupnik on guns, from 03/10
Thanks for the soundbytes Clarance.
http://blog.eyeblast.tv/2011/01/sheriff-clarence-dupnik-i-cant-think-of-a-single-incident-where-armed-citizens-stopped-a-crime/
January 10th, 2011 on 4:58 pm
many people have the power to influence others with there words, borderline nuts are everywhere,,
January 10th, 2011 on 11:23 pm
Your sheriff is an idiot. Who is he to point fingers? He’s suppose to apprehend; not preach.
Who elected him? I wouldn’t let him carry a water pistol.
January 11th, 2011 on 12:05 am
“Who elected him?”
Secular Progressive liberals who infest Tucson.
January 11th, 2011 on 12:07 am
Same crowd who elected the City Council too.
January 11th, 2011 on 3:21 am
hello_world ~ We may need to live together with political differences, and not demean each other. You are not more American or special than I, though I am a “secular progressive liberal”. I pay taxes and obey the laws, just as you do.
January 11th, 2011 on 12:28 am
Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Fox and the Tea Party are directly responsible for the massacre in Arizona. They should be ashamed of themselves. Mark Montgomery NYC, NY boboberg@nyc.rr.com
January 11th, 2011 on 3:22 am
Mark ~ But will they take responsibility for this? No.
January 11th, 2011 on 3:19 am
Mark Montgomery, you are a mental midget. Try thinking for yourself instead of spewing Democrat talking points.
January 11th, 2011 on 3:24 am
Paul ~ Again, we may need to live together with our differences. Your use of “mental midget” does not lessen the, uh, vitrol and meanness in Arizona and across America at this time.
January 11th, 2011 on 6:31 am
Sheriff Duknip needs to apologize to americans
http://thegovernmentrag.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/shame-on-you-sheriff-clarence-dupnik/
January 11th, 2011 on 12:15 pm
Have America’s jails and prisons become its New Asylums? FRONTLINE
AMY GOODMAN: Sheriff, this is from the Treatment Advocacy Center: “Arizona jails or imprisons 9.3 times more people with severe mental illness than it hospitalizes,” the second worst in the nation. “Arizona has 5.9 psychiatric beds per 100,000 population,” also the second worst rate in the nation. Nevada is worse on both scores. “Arizona is home to more than 50,000 people with schizophrenia, of whom a minimum of 25,000 are likely to be untreated at any given time.”
You talked about how times have changed as you’ve been in law enforcement for decades, more than half a century.
SHERIFF CLARENCE DUPNIK: That’s a fact. And as a matter of fact, in Pima County, where I happen to be the sheriff, the finest psychiatric facility in our county is the Pima County Jail.
January 11th, 2011 on 12:41 pm
Blame it all on Sheriff Dupnik. This “sheriff” was negligent by NOT providing any protection for the Congresswoman. 31 shots fired, and not a single sheriff’s deputy there to respond. Fire the sheriff, and then start an investigation. The negligence lawsuits against this Sheriffs Department will begin shortly.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:59 am
What convenient timing… the murder event “just happened” to take down a conservative democrat, kill a republican judge, prevent the repeal of the most treasonous law passed without beign read, except gun control treasons.
Too much coincidence….the organizer and his pals. The babbling freak talkning mind control was probably trying to articulate that HE was being controlled.
There, see how it feels sheriff? you effing pig.