The link between hate speech and violence
by Hugh Holub on Jan. 13, 2011, under politicsMany are attacking Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik and others for pointing out the problem of a climate of hate resulting in violence.
“The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous, and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital,” Dupnik said Saturday January 8th at a press conference about the shooting of Congresswoman Gabriell Giffords and 18 others.
“We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry,” Dupnik added. “The fiery rhetoric that has taken hold in politics may be free speech, but it’s not without consequences.”
“To try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, has impact on people, especially who are unbalanced personalities to begin with,” Dupnik said.
Dupnik is hitting on something with a long history to back up the need to call out the flamethrowers of hate and pour cold water on them.
There is something everyone who doubts the connection between a climate of hate and violence needs to experience.
Visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C.
The journey through the Holocaust Museum is one through time….starting with the earliest expressions of anti-Semitism and then into Germany in the 1930’s.
Politicians were demonizing Jews and others and blaming them for the economic problems Germany faced then.
A bunch of arguably crazy people dressed up in uniforms and acted out their delusions. Millions died as a result.
When I visited the Holocaust Museum about 10 years ago, I was with an official from the Mexican Embassy. Every so often I’d hear a voice behind me say “substitute the words “illegal alien” or Mexican” for Jew and ask where is your country going?”
Ten years later we know where the hate mongering about undocumented aliens has taken us.
The border is violent and many don’t believe undocumented aliens have human rights. People deny there are such things as rape trees.
There are proposals being taken seriously to load up 12 million people and haul them off…in railroad cars?
There are serious attempts to amend or constitution to deny birthright citizenship and a state legislature trying to create an Arizona citizenship. Take note the same sort of thing happened in Germany in the 1930s.
We have armed militias running around the countryside “enforcing the law”. Where do you think the SS came from?
We have Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio “sweeping” the parking lots of Home Depots.
And let us not forget our own history after the Civil War and espcially in the 20th century regarding the climate of violence that was created about Black people and all that happened as a result of that.
The issue is not whether Jared Loughner was directly inspired to take his Glock 19 and massacre a bunch of people who were simply trying to participate in the American right and tradition of free speech and public assembly.
The real issue is that if we do not stop the growing climate of hate and demonization of others…the path is into the pit of darkness.
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said it like it is. And if you doubt for a second the warning he is giving us….take a trip through Germany in the 1930’s and notice how similar the build-up is now to what happened then. The difference, I hope, is that we can do what the people of Germany did not do…stop this nonsense before it gets totally out of control.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:07 am
@Mr. Holub:
As a German, living in the US, I understand, where you are coming from and applaud your intend. The sheriff has no business linking politics with police investigation. He of all people should NOT engage in the rethoric he’s mumbling about. On the opposite, his remarks inflamed !!
And for note:
- German Citizenship until today is only given to children of “German” descend. Resulting with this is that non-German parties have to apply for it – and may or may not have to work to integrate.
- Violence on the border is part of a problem, generated by the social-ecological differences between Mexico and the US. With the lax immigration enforcement as well as the well known chance to be basically permanent in the US (through various past and present possibilities) the stream of immigrants at the border will not stop. Other border threats -terroistic, etc. – not addressed.
- No state should have their borders as open as the US has, especially considering that there are plenty of feel-good do-nothing measures burdening the public (keyword TSA-scanners – see Kaufman, An evaluation of airport x-ray backscatter units based on image characteristics, J Transp Secur, Oct 2010)
- It is not the Sheriff’s job to link political opinion with criminal investigation. Until I hear / see the police stating, that they have found evidence of right-wing symbols and election related pictures with the shooter, no statement should be made. To make matters worse, not only does it seem as if the shooter is a lone nutter, but there are plenty of examples, where the left goes over board, too. Below the most disturbing, as it is not even a veiled hint, but a clear instruction:
“That Scott down there that’s running for governor of Florida,” Rep. Kanjorski (Democrat) said. “Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him.”
January 16th, 2011 on 12:00 am
Pardon me, but you are ignorant – and perhaps racists.
This isnt Germany. The dominant culture in the southwest is the mexican american culture. The history of the southwest cannot be decoupled from mexico – or indigenous people nor do most people want it decoupled. I dont and I am german/english. This isnt the sudatenland.
As a note regarding your ignorance – Mr. Dupnik isnt an employee – he is an elected official. That means by definition that he is political. He is unlike the Tucson chief of police – who is employed not elected.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:43 am
Sheriff Dupnik you passsed judgement said un truths for your political agenda . I have never seen someone display such unprofessional , You did not put the law first but played politics ,People not even living in Arizonia find you very upsetting . We do not want to hear your nonsense.
January 13th, 2011 on 3:37 pm
If you are an educated person you would know from HISTORY that what the mayor said is the TRUTH. He is being critized for speaking the truth. You must live in a one world society where you believe that your way of life and thinking is the right way. You are being judgemental of the sheriff. Your comment does not fit the agenda nor represent a person of truth.
January 16th, 2011 on 12:03 am
You dont want to hear … then mind your own business. If you arent a citizen of Pima county then its none of your business in the first place.
Just to set you straight as well – Mr. Dupnik IS a politician. He is ELECTED not HIRED. You are ignorantly accusing him of being precisely what he is … a politician. And he has said nothing untrue. I say that as a resident of Pima county since 1964.
You are out of line.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:49 am
Ok I get it, the writer is no doubt a champion for amnesty and all things for immigration rights. He just needs to get his democratic superman suit with the Big D on the front. Like most leftist writers he uses a tragedy in order to advance a political opportunity and let no crises go to waste.
Sheriff Dubnik would have been fired for his remarks if he were just a Deputy Sheriff but I guess there are standards that don’t apply to him. If nothing the Sheriff is just another political hack who believes that that he only has to enforce only those laws that he agrees with and only represents those who agree with him.
The writer says that the sheriff told it like it was but that was only because he agreed with him. The Sheriff told it like a true leftist and ideologue and does not represent the standards that apply to other law enforcement officers under his command.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:41 am
Al…maybe you ought to read my border commentaries.
January 13th, 2011 on 10:04 am
Listen to Sheriff Dupnik explain his comments on 1/11/11 on the John C. Scott KJLL show via C-span:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/CSco
January 13th, 2011 on 10:10 am
sheriff dupnik said what he sees everyday in his work.in real life when his deputys stop anybody without ID , they arrest them and call ICE.same goes for santa cruz county,it is what it is,,
January 13th, 2011 on 10:47 am
Equating illegal immigration with the holocaust is quite a stretch isn’t it?
We’re not going to send anyone to the gas chamber or to a firing squad.
Try going to Mexico illegally……you’ll be deported. Period.
As a matter of fact, try going anywhere else illegally and you’ll find out just how lax the U.S. is on immigration. We are FAR more tolerant of illegals than most.
Just come right out and say that everyone should have open borders. Thats what you really want.
The simple fact is that we cannot afford to support, feed, provide health care, and educate the rest of the world. Its simply irresponsible and short sighted of you to overlook that fact because you feel sorry for the less fortunate.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:30 am
Equating illegal immigration with the holocaust is quite a stretch isn’t it?
No, not really. Think that the German people just woke up one day and decided it would be a good day to send some folks to a concentration camp? Years of promoting the kind of hate and scapegoating that the nativists are promoting here today in the US led up to the holocaust.
We’re not going to send anyone to the gas chamber or to a firing squad.
Not yet, anyway. But when you start down the road of intolerance and hatred, you can know that it never leads to anything good, but you can’t know exactly where it will end. When it does, will you all sit back and say, “We never meant for that to happen”; completely denying any responsibility for lighting the match that started the fire?
January 13th, 2011 on 12:38 pm
B******t. Sure tired of this crap. ” Not yet anyway”. The Mexicans are using you and your ilk. I didnt see millions of Jews running into Germany. You are so blinded by your own rhetoric you are pathetic.
January 14th, 2011 on 10:41 am
You need to study more history, then take a few courses in logic before you attempt to educate others. Then Jews were in Germany LEGALLY. The immigrants we are addressing are here ILLEGALLY. As with most liberals you assume, therfore it is a fact to you.(See my 1st sentence)
As for the political discourse causing these outbursts of mayhem, do your due diligence instead of spouting opinion. (See BOORTZ.com, American Thinker.com, and Michelle Malkin) You will find that thelargest proportion of mayhem is orchestrated by people with the same leftist mentalities that you espouse. These are the facts, not my opinion. Consequently, maybe you should be trying to preach to your own instead of against those of us that believe in and follow the rule of law.
January 14th, 2011 on 11:25 am
>do your due diligence instead of spouting opinion. (See BOORTZ.com, American Thinker.com, and Michelle Malkin)
LOL
January 14th, 2011 on 11:45 am
As I said, You assume, therefore it is fact to you. Where are your facts? Tell me where you dispute any of the facts that are present on any of the sites I mentioned. Most likely you have never even researched them yet you disparage the mere idea of looking at them? Tell me again who is the tolerant group? Why would you choose to attack Limbaugh, O’Reilly, etc. but place no blame on Hollywood. Explain your hypocrisy and we may have a basis for a reasonable discussion. Otherwise, you show yourself to be the epitome of what Dupnik says the problem is.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:06 pm
>Why would you choose to attack Limbaugh, O’Reilly, etc. but place no blame on Hollywood.
Because Limbaugh O’Reilly, etc attack me, and have been doing so for years. It’s quite simple.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:41 am
Jeff… you inadvertently make my point. If you read any of my border commentaries you would reconize that I am not an “open border” advocate.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:12 am
The hateful speech of the O-Messia and the progressives including the PR Sheriff dupnik has definitely contributed to the climate of violence. But I would rather them to be staging mock beheadings and burnings of Bush, governor of Arizona, talking about bringing guns (as O-Messia) did, and many other things, than limiting American freedoms.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:19 am
You used images of Hitler and Nazi Germany, thus you lose your arguement.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:31 am
Get used to it.
January 14th, 2011 on 10:12 am
We are very used to you losing your argument.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:37 am
You nativists are after the wrong enemy. What did the migrants have to do with the economic conditions that drive them across the border? Not a thing. And what did they have to do with down-sizing and outsourcing of jobs here in the US? Nothing again. The same forces that drive them across the border are the very ones that make you fear that what little you have will be taken away by them.
If instead of seeing them as coming to take the last of the crumbs you have worked so hard to hold onto, you could see them as victims of the same forces as yourselves in solidarity, fighting the same enemy, together you could be unstoppable in the struggle for justice.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:40 am
I have to wonder as the anti-Jewish campaign was growing in Germany if the same sort of denials were being made….oh this has nothing to with that…and we really don’t mean to…. what a lot of people don’t get is that in a climate where whomever is being demonized, there are some folks who will consider the climate justification for their individual acts.
America still hasn’t faced up to the climate of hositility and racism that was overt in this country until not long ago and which led to thousands of acts of violence….and I happened to grow up in a little Southern town where Blacks, Jews and Mexicans were “those ” people and experienced violence first hand as a kid.
And in one of the last rooms at the Holocaust Museum is a wall of rememberance for those who stood up against the hate mongers….and there are so few names on that wall from the whole damned world.
If I drew a link between history and what’s going on now it is because we will never forget how what happened started….and it started exactly the way stuff is now. And part of stopping the repeat is to stand up.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:27 am
OK, Hugh—what does America need to do, in order for it to “face up” to past racism to a level that satisfies you?
January 17th, 2011 on 8:03 am
OK, Hugh—what does America need to do, in order for it to “face up” to past racism to a level that satisfies you?
I’m not presuming to speak for Mr. Holub, but IMO, as a start, America will have to acknowledge that racism is not just in our past. We will have to acknowledge that racism has been and is a part of American life.
January 14th, 2011 on 4:09 pm
To Hugh Holub
Finally, a message written with a clear voice and no despise towards Hispanics, Blacks, immigrants, or anybody else. Hugh is right. But anyway the tone of this forum is appalling. There is even one who considers every Moslem is ready to cut the throat of the guy next door. Just the kind of hate mongering produced by Goebbels to give unemployed Germans cause to worry and get angry against other Germans who were Jewish. Creating scapegoats is the ultimate goal of demagogues all over the world.
Guns + Hate speeches = murders. Anywhere, anytime, anybody.
And even if you did not vote for Obama, he is your president. So be polite towards him . He represents the American Nation, period.
January 13th, 2011 on 12:25 pm
The only anti-Jewish campaign in the USA is being lead by the Islamo-Nazis and their Progressive allies – yes those that elected O-Messia
January 15th, 2011 on 12:55 pm
You forgot Jimmy Carter.
January 13th, 2011 on 12:26 pm
And those that control the real hate propaganda machines, like NY Slimes e.g.
January 13th, 2011 on 12:32 pm
I do not understand why my comment above was not published.
Yes the anti-Jewish campaign in the USA is spearheaded by the Islamists and their progressive allies that elected our commie president
January 13th, 2011 on 3:29 pm
Muslims are now the left’s newest best friends. You will note how the leftist MSM panders to them, as does our muslim president.
January 13th, 2011 on 4:25 pm
>Muslims are now the left’s newest best friends. You will note how the leftist MSM panders to them, as does our muslim president.
“We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry,”
January 13th, 2011 on 5:24 pm
Too bad the targets of the muslims are not restricted to left wingers who pander to them. You forget that they would cut your throat as fast as anyone else. But the left has always defended America’s enemies. Nothing new there.
January 14th, 2011 on 11:51 am
The irony here Tip is that if the Muslims had their way, your belief system would place you at the front of the line with Jews. And yet you are blind to the facts still.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:09 pm
The irony here Tip is that if the Muslims had their way
Another “irony” is that you don’t seem to understand the meaning of “irony”. I have no idea why you are talking about muslims, but I know it is irrelevant
January 14th, 2011 on 8:04 am
What a bunch of bull – - to think that the current wave of Anti-Semitism has been spearheaded by “Islamo-Fascists” and “Progressives”.
As a Jewish Progressive, I’ll say that Anti-Semitism has been around for a long time, long before the emergence of so-called “Islamo-Fascists”. And to assert that Progressives are to blame for the presence of Anti-Semitism is, in the least, confusing Zionism with the Jewish people.
Rather, I’ll say that Anti-Semitism throughout the ages can be traced to people like “Gaby” who foster hatred wherever they can find it.
Take THAT, Hate Monger Gaby!
January 15th, 2011 on 5:30 pm
Jewish progressives have no idea of what is coming to them.
January 13th, 2011 on 12:34 pm
Hugh, you’ve stated your thoughts so eloquently. All along, with this “illegals” situation, in the back of my mind I’ve thought about that old adage, and I’m butchering it here: “If we ignore history we’re bound to repeat it.”
It bothers me that so many people feel that the sheriff is mixing politics with his duties as a law enforcement officer when what he’s doing is painting a picture of what he sees and hears and feels and what his concerns are. He’s actually doing what I would expect somebody who’s hired to protect me to do – tell me what’s making me unsafe.
Anyway, teach on, brother.
January 13th, 2011 on 3:07 pm
What’s making us unsafe is a Dopey sheriff refusing to do his job, and the failure of the Federal Government, yeah, those clown that take 25% or more of your pay before you get any of it, they refuse to do their job.
January 13th, 2011 on 12:35 pm
I object, Dupnik is not mixing politics with his duties – based on the current information he is only doing politics without giving a d*mn about his duties.
January 13th, 2011 on 12:44 pm
Jared Lougher was a sick, demented nutjob. Somebody show me a link to the Tea Parties, illegal aliens etc. We have no knowledge that he listened to the radio shows and TV shows that you are blaming.
You are scapgoating and you know it.
The court syatem will try this guy and I pray that they will kill him. There is a place in hell for him.
January 13th, 2011 on 1:16 pm
Do not worry, they know that Loughner was a nut job with progressive – anarchist tendencies , but their social ideas are so important that those who oppose them need to be smeared at any cost.
January 13th, 2011 on 6:17 pm
I have a friend who believed in the New World Currency conspiracy. I had read a lot trying to understand what they were freaking out about. So, this is my personal opinion based based on that past experience and how I see some connections.
Loughner was obsessed with that particular conspiracy theory. They believe a new currency for the Americas is being secretly created – kind of like the European Euro.
Loughner believed it was being created by politicians using words or grammar to get us to believe it. In other words, to control us. In his videos he tried to demonstrate that IF you make a statement THEN it becomes a reality. It seems like a bunch of gibberish at first, but if you are aware of what people in that group believe, then you understand what he’s trying to say.
Paranoid schizophrenics and others with hallucinatory mental issues are not necessarily totally disassociated with reality. On the contrary, it’s been my experience they can be HIGHLY influenced by real things they see and hear and can be very gullible.
People who believe in the New World Currency conspiracy believe that:
1) Obama is their puppet
2) Bailing out the banks was done by conspirators to make it happen.
During the elections Tucson was plastered with posters, flyers, and commercials that accused Giffords of:
1) Being Obama’s puppet
2) Single-handedly bailing out the banks.
The campaign made her look like an evil dictator. Font, words, phrases, music, images were used to instill fear of her. The guns and offensive speech didn’t help either.
If you live in Tucson, you had to see that. If Loughner already had a deep-seated, long-term resentment of Giffords, and believed it, that must have infuriated him.
When Loughner met Giffords in person he asked her “How do you know words mean anything” and referred to her as a fake later. He uses that phrase in his videos about New World Currency.
In this case, I’m not sure “party” has as much to do with it, as does speech and irresponsible vilifying – which all parties did. One side may have had guns as their mascot, but both sides used underhanded methods, smoke, mirrors, mind games, to influence minds.
Whether or not you believe the hate words caused the events last weekend to happen, this should be a wake-up call to everyone to stop it before it happens again with more clear-cut connections.
January 13th, 2011 on 6:23 pm
….And in all honesty, many of those flyers plastered all around town looked homemade and no “claim”mark on them. For all we know, it could have been put up by Loughner.
But regardless, politicians and their legions need a refresher course in ethics.
January 17th, 2011 on 10:17 am
Jared Lougher was a sick, demented nutjob
On the face of it, it would seem likely that Mr. Loughner is mentally ill (as opposed to ‘sick, demented nutjob’). This will be up to mental health professionals to determine. If he is found mentally ill, then they will not ‘kill him’.
January 13th, 2011 on 1:32 pm
As a Frenchman who studied in Boston in 1968/9, I am appalled by so many hateful messages. Sheriff Dupnik expresses a feeling understood all over the world. What happens to the US society unable to detect and care about a youngster so much disturbed and mentally ill ? This society is so maniac about guns that this young man can buy a 9 mm gun almost unnoticed and wander around before killing this poor woman . Sounds unbelievable in France or anywhere else in Europe where gun control is strictly enforced for the safety of the population. Can you understand what might happen to your country if one of theses loudmouth we watch on TV become president of the USA with, at his disposal, the nuclear codes ? Time to wake up America and be concerned about what happens to the kids..
January 13th, 2011 on 5:30 pm
France fell to the Germans in just two weeks. No one was armed to resist them. The commander of the Japanese army said that an invasion of the US would be a disaster for them. He said every American was armed and they had an effective army of 75,000,000 people. An armed society is a free society. An unarmed man is a subject, like they all are in Europe. An armed man is a free man.
January 20th, 2011 on 10:47 am
Right is wrong, in your example of bellicosity. And our society is NOT s free society.
January 20th, 2011 on 12:27 pm
An unarmed man is a subject, like they all are in Europe.
They are apparently blissfully unaware of the enslavement and the misery, as they generally rank amongst the overall happiest people on the planet.
January 21st, 2011 on 12:47 pm
I had not seen rightismight (!!) answer ! this needs a reply.
What has the 1940 fall of France against the Nazis to do with the murder of this congress woman by a disturbed youth ? It is irrelevant . Just make your brains work … In 1940, Should every Frenchman of age have had a gun to oppose the Stukas and the Panzers ? What would have happened. Just think !
France fell because the military brass / politicians realized too late the danger of the Nazi regime based on hate and violence (..) and did not listen to the warnings of the then colonel de Gaulle whose books were read in Berlin… A fully trained German army had shown its strength in Poland . The French ( and British) armies could not be reorganized in time.
Thus, France did not fall in 1940 because Frenchmen had not enough gunshops or guns in the drawers. It is the most funny ( sort of..) explanation I have ever read.. What did you learn in high school ?
I’m not an historian but as far as I know, the Japs wanted to give a quick blow on Pearl Harbour, destroying the carriers, then quickly sign a peace agreement with the US. They had not thought the carriers would be at sea. On the other hand, Yamamoto was the only officer to ponder this mistake and realize that the USA under FDR with Harriman and the like.were invicible. Am I wrong ?
I doubt the 2nd amendment worried the Japanese High Command more than one millionth of a second.
Now if you can prove your point, lots of History books will have to be modified and reprinted to mention your name.
January 14th, 2011 on 5:51 am
I am an American. I also live in Arizona. My ancestors were French Huguenots (Protestants) who were persecuted and massacred, driven out of France in the late 1600′s by the Catholics for their religious beliefs. Look for the name ‘SELOVER’ on this link http://huguenot.netnation.com/ancestor/default.htm .
In the early 1700′s my ancestors made it to America and established a new life full of promise on these shores and have thrived. Please do not mention the words ‘France’ and ‘safety’ in the same sentence in my earshot. I for one am ashamed of my French legacy. Not to mention the thousands of Americans buried on your shores who gave you the freedoms you know today. I am not sure they would say ‘You are Welcome.!’
January 17th, 2011 on 10:22 am
As a Frenchman who studied in Boston in 1968/9, I am appalled by so many hateful messages…
If you spent that much time here, you should know that the citizens of the US largely believe in the myth of American Exceptionalism. In this case, that means that the fact that the citizens of Europe view gun control differently than us can only be taken as proof of our inherent superiority.
January 13th, 2011 on 1:37 pm
Gun control in France did not prevent the brutal killing of Ilan Halimi, Al-Durah blood libel (yes, blood libel against the Jews) and terrible anti-antisemitism that drove some of my good friends to leave France for the USA.
Do not throw stones from a glass house.
Sheriff Dupnik is the one responsible for politicizing the murder and for creating an atmosphere of hate around it.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:42 pm
Sheriff Dupnik is the one responsible for politicizing the murder and for creating an atmosphere of hate around it.
Dupnik is not on the radio every day ranting about how migrants are making your life miserable and liberals are plotting to establish a socialist state. Really, he just looked out the window and reported on the weather.
January 13th, 2011 on 10:19 pm
I do not understand what the migrants have to do with the story period. But the hate spewing media from the left includes NY Slimes, CNN, ABC, MSNBC WaPo and other major outlets. The picture they are trying to paint is that Socialism is good, the right is hateful and progressives are great kind sophisticated people. They repeat as often as the stupid sheep shouting “two legs are bad, 4 are good” at snowball’s speeches.
January 14th, 2011 on 5:34 am
Excuse me..I thought his duty as Sheriff did not require him to comment on the weather? In other words his responsibilities did not require his obvious political toadie remarks regarding unsubstantiated claims. He should stick to the facts.
January 14th, 2011 on 9:04 am
I thought his duty as Sheriff did not require him to comment on the weather?
This logic doesn’t seem to stop Babeau and Arpaio from jumping right in with both feet. Funny, but the right wing doesn’t whine about their comments.
January 14th, 2011 on 12:04 pm
What has Arpaio said that was based on pure opinion and no fact? Every statement I’ve seem from him was based around the law. Dupnik on the otherhand cannot even begin to tie ANY facts of this case to Limbaugh or the other talkies.
BTW, just because you use the word logic doesn’t mean you understand it.
January 15th, 2011 on 12:58 pm
Thank God, Dipstick is not on the radio but only a passing guest on PMSBC. Correction. It is the ILLEGAL immigrants that are part of the problem. The primary problem are the liberals.
January 20th, 2011 on 12:30 pm
The primary problem are the liberals.
In a way, I actually agree with you here. Liberals are the second biggest supporters of American imperialism on the planet. They retain a child-like faith that by compromising with reactionary forces the beast that is American capitalism can be tamed and some measure of justice can be reached. Worst of all, they allow conservatives a seat at the table and a voice.
January 13th, 2011 on 1:39 pm
Minor corrections:
Gun control in France did not prevent the brutal killing of Ilan Halimi, Al-Durah blood libel (yes, blood libel against the Jews) and terrible antisemitism that drove some of my good friends to leave France for the USA.
Do not throw stones from a glass house.
Sheriff Dupnik is the one responsible for politicizing the murder and for creating an atmosphere of political hate around it.
January 13th, 2011 on 1:40 pm
To be precise, I am Jewish, I do not know a single Jew who would leave the USA for France and I know many who escaping the Jew hatred in France came to the USA and Israel
January 13th, 2011 on 2:28 pm
My family is from France and France is and always has been anti Semitic. Most are not aware that durning WW2, it was the French police that did all the rounding up of Jews for the Nazis. The Nazis played almost no active roll.
January 13th, 2011 on 2:26 pm
When are the citizens of Pinal county going to apologize for the fool Dipstick and his leftwing rants? The comments across the country illustrate that this jerk is way out of line and will no doubt hurt the prosecutor’s case. Is there a recall plan afoot to get him out of office? If not, there should be. He is an embarrassment to Tucson and all of AZ.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:48 pm
The comments across the country illustrate that this jerk is way out of line…
The only such comments come from right wing hate sites and rabidly right commenters. And Dupnik is no extreme left winger. He is very much a moderate. You’d have to classify anybody to the left of Russell Pearce and J.T. Ready as a liberal to think of Dupnik as a radical.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:29 am
Unfortunately, Sherriff Dupnik is a Pima County, not Pinal County, problem.
January 13th, 2011 on 2:36 pm
>When are the citizens of Pinal county going to apologize for the fool Dipstick and his leftwing rants?
Why are you upset that he mentioned you ?
(P.S. Dupnik is not from Pinal County, which has a true dipstick for a sheriff)
January 13th, 2011 on 3:27 pm
Misprint, Pima county. And he is still a dipstick.
January 13th, 2011 on 3:02 pm
There is a fundamental lack of reasoning with this article in that all of the comparisons with past historical events attempt to equate knowing law breakers, whose presence in this state can be documented and proven to be detrimental to the legal and legitimate citizenry in every way, with groups of people in the past, that did not fit into that category. This faulty comparison has been noted by many of the bloggers here; and it is childish and foolish to make such a comparison, as it is precisely this kind of hate speech that is indeed inflaming the American public. It is those who fail to put the heat of our Federal Government to enforce the Constitution, that are guilty of hate speech; a vile hatred against our own citizens – it’s called treason, and it’s the only crime defined in our constitution; you may want to read it sometime. I agree, some cold water needs to be thrown on some flame throwers, we can start with Dupnik.
The debate over illegal aliens is not whether or not they have human rights, but whether or not they have the same or even great rights than the citizenry. And I’ve never heard, even from a random skinhead blogger, suggest that illegals should put in boxcars; nice try to solidify your foolish comparison to Jews, though.
And yes, there are rumblings to actually go through proper channels to clarify a vagary in the 14th Amendment, which in historical context, was never meant to give citizenship or a pathway thereto, to knowing criminals. But what would leftists who support such clearly unconstitutional matters as National Health Care, DOE, HUD, DOAg, DOLabor, Social Security, Medifraud/Mediwaste, and a whole host of others, know about the constitution.
We have armed militias running around enforcing the law, not because they have randomly made up their own laws, but because our hateful and spiteful federal government, and the hateful and spiteful folks that agree with you position, refuse to protect the life liberty and property of our own citizens!? What could be more hateful-here, have a bucket of water, fool. Here comes the linemen with a bucket of Gator Aide, you need it. And oh, we have a sheriff who not only takes his oath of office, but he takes it seriously. Wow, he makes sweeps of Home Depot parking lots: Exactly why is it wrong for the sheriff to round up criminals?
There’s not much more reason to continue sifting through the drivel of nonsense, false comparisons, and boneheaded conclusions, other than to say, if you love the illegals so much, then move a couple hundred miles south, and become one with you brothers and sisters back north.
January 13th, 2011 on 3:18 pm
But what would leftists who support such clearly unconstitutional matters as National Health Care, DOE, HUD, DOAg, DOLabor, Social Security, Medifraud/Mediwaste, and a whole host of others, know about the constitution.
Sounds like Jared’s writings.
January 13th, 2011 on 5:27 pm
Well then, on those points, he is quite rational and sane, and can obviously be tried for 1st degree murder without further mental health assessment.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:50 pm
…to give citizenship or a pathway thereto, to knowing criminals.
When you believe the unborn fetus is plotting a conspiracy, you are really in trouble and need help.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:11 pm
Facts have reduced you to mumbling and rambling again. Tell us, please…does it hurt to be trapped in your head?
January 13th, 2011 on 3:12 pm
When is he giving up pretending he is a LEO and actually try running for a democrat political office?
January 13th, 2011 on 5:06 pm
Is there any recall movement afoot to get rid of this fool???
January 13th, 2011 on 4:41 pm
Gun control in UK or Germany or France or anywhere else has never prevented crime. It makes only very difficult for an individual to buy a gun.
And no question to buy an M 16 or a submachine gun.
to Gaby
I understand your feeling when this horrendous crime was committed in France . But I do not see the link with Sheriff Dupnik who clearly linked the hate campaign which disturbed so much an already disturbed youth so as to have him buy a gun and seek an innocent to kill. Sheriffs have a duty to enforce the law. But they are not forbidden to think. And this one has brains. He saves the point for Tucson city.
January 13th, 2011 on 5:03 pm
There is no connection between Ilan Halimi and Sheriff Dupnik. I was just responding to the French guy above pointing to him that disarming the populace not necessarily leads to a better society.
Sheriff Dupnik can think and say what he wants, but it was not wise and it was not fair of him to score political points off the tragedy that had nothing to do with the tea party or Sarah Palin. And it is my right to state it loudly.
January 14th, 2011 on 11:56 am
Freedom of speech is a right. But hate speech is excluded. And in any case, it stops where the freedom of others starts.
The Freedom of American citizens to live is not only endangered by others who should have never been allowed to buy a gun but also by the sheer number of guns in drawers and cabinets and in the gun shops all over the country.
Carrying a gun may be a right. But hundreds of millions of guns easily available in a large country like the US result in the Tucson disaster and many more which make the headlines. So many guns endanger the society you are living in, just by the statistics.
You should realize a gun acts like booze and psychotropic drugs. It makes some weak minds feel like Superman and provoke the liberation of so many inhibitions ever the most dreadful ones.
Some here speak exactly like extremist preachers from the Middle East or like this Baptist preacher we heard today on the radio. Let’s be clear, the Crusades and the Crusadeers are a dangerous myth. France had its bad days. but no need to make a paintbrush generalization. Proportionnally, much less Jews were deported from France than from Belgium, the Netherlands or Poland. Tens of thousands were hid by French families risking their lives like in Chambon sur Lignon or Dieulefit or in remote farms, boarding schools, monasteries, presbiteries, parochial school.
The USA had its bad days too. Every nation has. Just think… Do we judge the USA through the indiscriminate annihilation of native Americans, slavery, My Lay, or Guantanamo or the legal murder of inmates by lethal drugs ? You have to live with it like we have to live with the black days of the Vichy regime. I was not born then. In one word, nobody is allowed to despise any country or citizen of this country. We ( and You) are not allowed to despise any nation or member of this nation because our ( your) forefathers were expelled from France just because they were Huguenots, Jewish, Black, or anything you can think of. So let the myths in the books and face reality. Too many guns, too many shootings, too many deaths.
@Gaby
Arming the populace endangers the daily life
From wiki
“200 millions of guns in the USA”
“Research and statistics have shown that guns intensify crime situations, and increase the likelihood of a more violent or lethal outcome (Wiki)”
January 15th, 2011 on 5:05 pm
Freedom of speech is a right not excluding ANY speech. There should be no exceptions to that rule.
Otherwise the definition of ‘hate’ will vary depending on who is in power.
January 17th, 2011 on 8:06 am
Freedom of speech is a right not excluding ANY speech. There should be no exceptions to that rule.
The Supreme Court has set precedent that there are limits and it is very unlikely that this will change.
January 13th, 2011 on 5:32 pm
Dipstick is a liberal Dem fool. He needs to resign and join the Soetoro admistration where his leftwing rants would be right in line with Soetoro’s.
January 13th, 2011 on 9:52 pm
I like the avatar and the user name. Together they pretty much let the reader know what to expect. Saves time that way.
January 13th, 2011 on 10:10 pm
I do not know if you are aware that Trotsky is responsible for deaths of hundreds of thousands people. But he is also responsible for helping to bring to power monsters much worse than himself: Lenin and Stalin.
January 13th, 2011 on 10:27 pm
I’m gonna have to say that I am very sure I know quite a bit more about Leon Trotsky than you. Trotsky’s involvement in any deaths would have come as head of the Red Army while it was busy fighting reactionaries intent on restoring the monarchy and imperialist forces from other nations intent on preventing the consolidation of Bolshevik control of Russia; both enemies of the revolution and not exactly innocents. Leon, until he was killed by Stalin, spent his time in exile trying to warn the world of the danger Stalin represented.
Stalin was indeed a murderer and probably responsible for more deaths than even Ronald Reagan and George Bush put together. But Lenin and Trotsky were geniuses and heroes of the revolution.
January 13th, 2011 on 10:34 pm
Sorry to upset you, but the october revolution was an illegal coup headed by bloody monsters Lenin and Trotsky that overthrew a democratic Russian government. Their major tool for staying in power was killing their opponents. Both Lenin and Trotsky’s spilled rivers on innocent blood.
And now I understand that your avatar also matches your beliefs very well. Also a time saver.
January 14th, 2011 on 8:58 am
Sorry to upset you
It’s OK, I’m not upset, but there’s nothing innocent about counter-revolutionaries, monarchists and imperialists.
Many good communists were killed by that sort.
The Russian Revolution is historical fact, just as the communist future of mankind is an inevitability. Lenin and Trotsky both have made great contributions to communist theory and will always be remembered.
January 13th, 2011 on 10:40 pm
Dostoevsky in Devils (Possessed) was talking about a socialist philosopher who came up with the an idea of a society where 10% had all the rights while the rest 90% were their servants. This is a society which Lenin and Trotsky built in Soviet Russia after spilling rivers of blood. The Communist party members had all the rights and no one else had any.
Stalin brought this society to its logical completion – he alone had all the rights no one else had any.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:24 pm
Nice response Gaby. By the way, your description of the elite and the servants is virtually the goal of lefty and his band of progressives. That’s why they want to silence the critics of their planned utopia.
As for indy, you need to do a little more homework and quote a site that offers facts. Anyone can place anything on wiki without any verification whatsoever. Furthermore, if dopenik was/ is so concerned about the hate speech, why weren’t his deputies offering a police presence at the function?
January 14th, 2011 on 4:02 pm
I like Dostoevsky, but I haven’t read this book. A good writer certainly, he was also a religious man and a tsarist. I have read many of his books nonetheless.
January 15th, 2011 on 5:17 pm
Yes, Dostoevsky was not an angel, he was a Russian nationalist and in his books and articles he was often denigrating people of other ethnicities and religions including Jews, Poles, Germans.
But he was also a dark prophet. What he described in “The Devils” unfortunately came true some 45+ years after the book was published. Try reading it. Maybe you’ll see what I mean.
Also I strongly recommend “Bazhanov & Damnation Of Stalin” by Boris Bazhanov former Stalin’s secretory who defected to the west. He also describes the Soviet Regime in 20ies and gives some interesting philosophical ideas about its nature. There is striking similarity between what Bazhanov described and the society presented by Shigalev (the philosopher from “The Devils”)
January 15th, 2011 on 5:42 pm
BTW, Bazhanov describes Trotsky as a good person on a personal level so to say but who is completely ‘possessed’ by one idea and for that idea he can do anything.
January 14th, 2011 on 12:34 am
Your precious “revolution” resulted in a failed State.
Thats a fact
January 14th, 2011 on 2:17 am
Hey Leftfield: I went to my garage and fingered my pickaxe named Leon!!
January 15th, 2011 on 11:11 pm
Responding to Leftfield” “Stalin was indeed a murderer and probably responsible for more deaths than even Ronald Reagan and George Bush put together.”
It is estimated that Stalin killed somewhere between 20 to 60 million. What millions did Reagan and Bush kill, combined!
January 16th, 2011 on 11:02 pm
What millions did Reagan and Bush kill, combined!
Yeah, it probably only came to a million or so. In the pantheon of mass murderers, they are small potatoes indeed; but they are our small potatoes.
January 14th, 2011 on 10:35 am
I like yours too. A bolshevik murderer who ended up with an ax in his head. A truly appropriate ending. Too bad all the other bolsheviks did not end up the same way.
January 14th, 2011 on 3:51 pm
A bolshevik murderer who ended up with an ax in his head
Well, you have the manner of death correct anyway. Marx, Lenin and Trotsky – they are the holy trinity of socialism, just like green peppers, onions and celery are the holy trinity of Cajun cooking.
January 14th, 2011 on 5:28 pm
I know a lot more about the bolsheviks than you do. Try reading Solzhenitsyn and Robert Conquest to really learn how the left operates. You will quickly drop your stupid screen name.
January 15th, 2011 on 3:16 am
I know a lot more about the bolsheviks than you do.
Perhaps you do.
Try reading Solzhenitsyn and Robert Conquest to really learn how the left operates.
Don’t forget Ayn Rand.
You will quickly drop your stupid screen name.
That doesn’t seem likely.
January 15th, 2011 on 5:19 pm
Yes, Ayn Rand was a very interesting philosopher who experienced early Russian Communism so to say on her own skin and not only by reading books.
January 15th, 2011 on 12:54 pm
Or scallions, ginger and garlic for Chinese and galangal, kaffir lime and lemon grass for Thai. Yummm.
January 13th, 2011 on 11:08 pm
I thank this newspaper for allowing me the privilege of being registered to comment.
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. In it you made the following statement:
“………The real issue is that if we do not stop the growing climate of hate and demonization of others…the path is into the pit of darkness…..”
I’m not so sure that attempting to stop “the growing climate of hate and demonization of others” can be accomplished with legislative edicts. And, if it is attempted, our Constitutional free speech / First Amendment rights may well be restricted and / or, curtailed. Recently, I wrote a blog piece that expresses my American [outside AZ] concern. I’ll just quote a small portion (here):
“Legislation in light of the Tucson Shooting Massacre:”
………Perhaps, there should be a law enacted which makes it illegal for no airplane to be within 1000 feet of a public official? After all, didn’t the 2 airplanes flying into the twin towers cause the tragedy of 911? Please excuse this author for being somewhat, sarcastic. But the reality remains, the alleged shooter did the nasty……..These politicians propose laws without thinking of unintended consequences……Also, laws like this would have put in jeopardy (prosecution) some law-abiding (concealed gun permit) citizens, ………… If Rep. Peter King wants to introduce some preventative and punitive legislation, he should start with the public school system that allowed this crazy from falling through the cracks. Also, he should enact legislation that would call for prosecution …………
http://freedomtorch.com/blogs/12090/2021/legislation-in-light-of-the-tucs
January 13th, 2011 on 11:14 pm
Please allow me: This duplicate comment should be more readable:
I thank this newspaper for allowing me the privilege of being registered to comment.
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. In it you made the following statement:
“………The real issue is that if we do not stop the growing climate of hate and demonization of others…the path is into the pit of darkness…..”
I’m not so sure that attempting to stop “the growing climate of hate and demonization of others” can be accomplished with legislative edicts. And, if it is attempted, our Constitutional free speech / First Amendment rights may well be restricted and / or, curtailed. Recently, I wrote a blog piece that expresses my American [outside AZ] concern. I’ll just quote a small portion (here):
“Legislation in light of the Tucson Shooting Massacre:”
………Perhaps, there should be a law enacted which makes it illegal for no airplane to be within 1000 feet of a public official? After all, didn’t the 2 airplanes flying into the twin towers cause the tragedy of 911? Please excuse this author for being somewhat, sarcastic. But the reality remains, the alleged shooter did the nasty……..These politicians propose laws without thinking of unintended consequences……Also, laws like this would have put in jeopardy (prosecution) some law-abiding (concealed gun permit) citizens, ………… If Rep. Peter King wants to introduce some preventative and punitive legislation, he should start with the public school system that allowed this crazy from falling through the cracks. Also, he should enact legislation that would call for prosecution …………
http://freedomtorch.com/blogs/12090/2021/legislation-in-light-of-the-tucs
January 14th, 2011 on 12:06 am
Words and Actions matter!
My heart is breaking over the loss of the beautiful little girl, Christina Greene . It is a sad day when we must fear showing our children the value of citizenship, civics and democracy through political discourse, by showing up at events such as last Saturday. I use to take my 8 year old granddaughter, Reese, to events with me and stopped doing so about 2 years ago when people started showing up with guns on their hips and signs that read, ” we must water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants”.
I attended town hall events for health care and heard people call Obama “a nigger socialist”. There were signs with the precatory prayer, psalm 109.8, which is a curse, and calls for Obama’s wife to be a widow and his children to be fatherless. I watched, as my Representative Jeff Flake allowed the misinformation regarding abortion and “death panels” to embellish and fuel the misinformed, misguided and misplaced anger. He only offered his fear that these imaginary things may happen.
During the health care vote in Washington D.C., I saw black congressmen being spat on, while my own congressmen Jeff Flake and others, stood on the balcony and unfurled the Gadsden, “don’t tread on me” flag, which only egged on the angry mob. It is unprecedented in our country that so many politicians would be complicit with the violent rhetoric and actions of any group. My Representative needs to rebuke his actions and apologize.
I hope, that out of this tragedy, cooler heads may prevail regarding how we treat each other. We should never lose the ability to have spirited, passionate and lively debates threaded with honesty and respectful sincerity. I am sure that Christina Greene would have been that very sort of citizen and politician. If she had just been given the chance.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:28 am
I’M so glad you people have a professional sheriff.There’s a on line betting poll that gives sheriff Barney Dipstick 60 days for him to announce his retirement for mental health reasons.I hope you people never give this guy another chance to represent the county.
January 14th, 2011 on 7:00 am
Dipstick should be openly reprimanded by the county commissioner and the prosecutor’s office for making political comments that might prejudice the state’s case against the shooter. Clearly Dipstick is a leftist activist and this is not the first time he has put his foot in his mouth. His open opposition to the AZ immigration law should have precipitated a recall election. This latest fiasco should surely get him pulled for office. If not, people across the country are going to think Tucson is another San Francisco – full of nuts.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:35 am
Hugh, seeing that New Mexico and Nevada just elected Hispanic-American governors—Republicans—I don’t see any valid reason to fear a Hispanic Kristallnacht in America. Of course, it’s possible to imagine any kind of apocalyptic future.
January 14th, 2011 on 9:01 am
I don’t see any valid reason to fear a Hispanic Kristallnacht in America
HB2281 and SB1070, amongst other things, lead many in the Latino community to believe otherwise. I doubt reassurances from the right wing that they have no reason to be concerned are well received.
January 14th, 2011 on 12:49 pm
If you are a legal resident of Arizona you have nothing to fear. The law SB1070 is aimed at illegal aliens.
January 17th, 2011 on 8:10 am
If you are a legal resident of Arizona you have nothing to fear. The law SB1070 is aimed at illegal aliens
And we can take Russell Pearce’s word for this? This argument might be almost believable were it not occurring in the context of other events such as HB2281 that make it clear what the intent of the law is.
January 15th, 2011 on 10:48 am
The ‘leading’ is done by the Leftist who did the same thing in 1920s Germany and 1960s Czechoslovaki with the ignorant following the few ‘leaders’ among the ranks.
January 15th, 2011 on 11:10 am
???????????????????
January 14th, 2011 on 10:12 am
>Hugh, seeing that New Mexico and Nevada just elected Hispanic-American governors—Republicans—I don’t see any valid reason to fear a Hispanic Kristallnacht in America.
Just a gay Kristallnacht
January 14th, 2011 on 11:29 am
There will be neither gay no Hispanic Kristallnacht. The people on the right including Palin, Beck and Limbaugh will be as much against it as the people on the left.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:12 pm
>The people on the right including Palin, Beck and Limbaugh will be as much against ….
When did they change their position ?
January 14th, 2011 on 1:26 pm
you should probably listen better to them and not pick up your info from progressive hate propaganda sites.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:35 pm
you should probably listen better to them….
I know exactly what their positions are – we just had a long public discussion of DADT and employment discrimination and I know that they aren’t leading any charge for gay rights.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:28 pm
You accuse them of hate speech without ever hearing or reading anything directly attributable to them. You need to look in the mirror. Your inability to distinguish between fact and opinion places you very close to Loughner’s deluded world.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:40 pm
>You accuse them of hate speech without ever hearing or reading anything directly attributable to them.
I seem to know more about their hateful politics than you do if you claim they don’t foment hate. Perhaps you should inform yourself.
Start by Googling Limbaugh and DADT
January 14th, 2011 on 5:02 pm
As for remving Kagan, she fored documents submitted to the SC before she was approved, the lied about it. What is your justifiation for NOT removing her?
As fo DADT, I guess that explains your whole philosophy on life doesn’t it. Funny how one of the top links you sent me to is from Media Matters. FYI, funded by George Soros. You know, the same guy that admitted on 60 minutes to social engineering, intentionally bankrupting countries, and to confiscating the Jews wealth and then turning them in. And you think Limbaugh preaches hate speech because a guy that lives, practices, and breaths hate and social engineering says so? Explain to all of us the difference between how you have arrived at your conclusions without any first hand knowledge and why your accusations should be anymore credible than Loughner’s. If you listen any of the talkies it is perfectly clear when they present facts and when they present opinion. How is his stating his opinion about DADT considered hate speech, but your opinion is not? And isn’t it a tragic irony that you form your ideals by researching a site that is funded by a man that supported a regime that killed gays when they were discovered? When he was asked about whether he had any guilt about it he stated, “actually it was one of the greatest times of his life”. You go right ahead telling everyone how hateful their opinion is and it is going to come right back around and bite your tail. Social justice has nothing to do with justice. When the rule of law is hi-jacked by political mumbo-jumbo,anarchy shal fill the vacuum. That is exactly what happened to Loughner and will eventually happen to you. Your ignorance is voluntary misfortune. So was Loughner’s.
January 14th, 2011 on 5:03 pm
I apologize for the typos, the keyboard is sticking.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:22 pm
Your reply is almost incoherent. Let’s see:
>As fo DADT, I guess that explains your whole philosophy on life doesn’t it
You claim that Limbaugh etc are not anti-gay and I just “haven’t listened to him directly”. I am proving that you are wrong.
>Funny how one of the top links you sent me to is from Media Matters.
I didn’t send you links – that’s just a search – you can view Limbaugh’s you tube videos and web site directly.
> Explain to all of us the difference between how you have arrived at your conclusions without any first hand knowledge
I provided you with first hand knowledge.
>How is his stating his opinion about DADT considered hate speech, but your opinion is not?
So now it is “direct from his mouth” ? – but only “his opinion” ?
>You go right ahead telling everyone how hateful their opinion is
I don’t need your permission – I intend to.
Your ignorance is voluntary misfortune.
And yet, in my “ignorance” I seem to know much more than you about your heroes.
January 14th, 2011 on 6:09 pm
You accuse them of hate speech without ever hearing or reading anything directly attributable to them
Untrue – you can educate yourself by googling them are read them directly.
January 15th, 2011 on 3:39 am
There will be neither gay no Hispanic Kristallnacht.
And we can trust you on this? Are you saying that as soon as you’re satisfied that gays and Latinos are “in their place” and “stop getting uppity” the constant stream of right wing anti-Latino and anti-gay tirades and legislation will suddenly stop? If so, who will you be going after next?
January 15th, 2011 on 5:01 pm
like a true commie you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say and attribute thought crimes to me that I did not commit.
January 14th, 2011 on 10:54 am
I wonder how many times Sherriff Dupnik and his deputies had to follow up on threats made against Gabby Giffords and others over the health care vote. I see where Kolbe and other members of the Republican party have quit their posts because they were “too moderate” for you yahoos down there. I guess threats were made against them by the tea party too. Sounds like Dupnik hit the nail on the head. You right wingers on Faux and in our communities have NO ideas on how to givern so they think that spewing hate and lies is the best way to legislate.
January 14th, 2011 on 12:20 pm
gaby, hold your horses what hispancs have to do with gays ???….. gays are gays.of all races….,,,in arizona first the indians,then the spaniards, then the mexicans,then the anglo, next the mexicans will take over again it will remain USA with a large hispanic population,,,,, i’m right or i’m right????????
January 14th, 2011 on 1:23 pm
Do not quite understand your point. The guys above were talking about Kristallnacht against Hispanics and gays, that’s why I answered them combining Hispanics and gays. Otherwise I do not think there is something common between them.
January 14th, 2011 on 1:31 pm
thank you.. thanks a lot….
January 15th, 2011 on 10:30 am
Interesting how the left love to use the Holocaust as an anchor illustration for their cause celeb when it was the Left who authored and executed the Final Solution. In fact, all the butchers of the 20th Century were from the Left as a previously noted, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Hitler and Mao. These regimes were supported by the Left in the US by either their isolationist views or political expediency, Wilson, Hoover and FDR. Interesting how the Mexican official was whispering in Holub’s ear during the Holocaust Museum visit. Does Holub always adopt an ignoramus perspective from a foreigner with a decided agenda or was the wet tongue in his ear short-circuiting the synapses? The link between speech and violence is about a weak as between rock music and violence which the Left loves to defend. It is humorous how the Left is asking for ‘civility’ and ‘bipartisanship’ after their party suffered the worst political defeat nationally since the 1940′s. State legislatures up for election switched to Republican-control while the Dems suffered only losses. As B.O. said, it was a shellacking. This is why the liberals were so quick to politicize the Tucson tragedy when none existed. Watching the Libs chase their tails and attempting to push square pegs into round holes it entertaining. It is totally hypocritical since the Dems shut out the Republicans from their Congressional meetings and caucuses since they gained the majority in 2007. Remember two years ago when Barack/Pelosi/Reid’s collective smug remarks to the Republicans was ‘we won’ and ‘elections have consequences’. As the adage goes, ‘Payback is a bitch’.
January 15th, 2011 on 11:09 am
In fact, all the butchers of the 20th Century were from the Left
It is only within the fevered imaginations of the right that Hitler fits neatly into the same group as Mao and Stalin. Most of the world considers fascism as an extreme right-wing ideology.
As major butchers of the twentieth century, how do Reagan, Nixon and Bush fit into your “murderous leftists” theory?
January 15th, 2011 on 12:05 pm
You’re funny. How many US citizens were carted away to concentration camps, gas chambers and mass executions in the Nixon, Reagan and Bush Administrations? Go ahead and makeup something. Lets invoke some ILM effects for you. Your progressive relativism slip is showing.
January 15th, 2011 on 6:01 pm
” How many US citizens were carted away to concentration camps, gas chambers and mass executions in the Nixon, Reagan and Bush Administrations? ”
Dude put down the pipe or put something else in it!
January 17th, 2011 on 8:17 am
You’re funny.
Thanks.
How many US citizens were carted away to concentration camps, gas chambers and mass executions in the Nixon, Reagan and Bush Administrations?
None that I’m aware of. But you might want to cast an eye over to Vietnam, Laos, Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Grenada, etc, etc if you want to find the dead.
January 15th, 2011 on 12:22 pm
Only ‘your world’ considers social fascist from the Right. The Leftist and progressives have been mimicking this rewrite of history in public schools and universities since the 1920s. The initial victims of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao’s regime were their close confidants, educators, patriarchs and matriarchs while their political parties hijacked the youth.
January 17th, 2011 on 10:00 am
Only ‘your world’ considers social fascist from the Right
It must have been a clerical error of huge proportions then, that the Nazis persecuted, imprisoned and killed German communists.
January 17th, 2011 on 12:46 pm
Do not forget that Russian and Chinese communists also persecuted, imprisoned and killed Russian and Chinese communists.
More over Nazis also persecuted, imprisoned and killed some other nazis – “Night of the long knives”
Both were extremely virulent, aggressive socialist ideology. Both were in favor of brutal social engineering. Both assumed that there are some special people in charge who will be conducting this social engineering. In that respect they are akin to some tzars advocating social engineering in Obama’s cabinet, e.g. John Holdren http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/.
January 17th, 2011 on 10:22 am
>Only ‘your world’ considers social fascist from the Right.
I concur – I’ve often thought that teabaggers inhabit a world of their own.
January 15th, 2011 on 6:02 pm
“Most of the world considers fascism as an extreme right-wing ideology. ”
Ad populam. Most of the world considers that a logical fallacy.
January 15th, 2011 on 10:55 am
The real issue is that if we do not stop the growing climate of hate and demonization of others…the path is into the pit of darkness.
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said it like it is.
I agree completely. I applaud Dupnik for telling it like it is. Check out Fitz’s cartoon in the Saturday Star.
January 15th, 2011 on 12:29 pm
A cartoon? The only ‘hate and demonization’ is from the Left since that is what they thrive on to push their agenda. Oh, I forgot. If someone disagrees with Obama’s agenda, they are racist and worthy of hate and dismissal. The ‘enemy’ , ‘bitter quitters’, ‘religious -right’ name-calling emits from the Democrats. It has been since the 60′s.
January 15th, 2011 on 12:31 pm
A cartoon? The only ‘hate and demonization’ is from the Left since that is what they thrive on to push their agenda. Oh, I forgot. If someone disagrees with Obama’s agenda, they are racist and worthy of hate and dismissal. The ‘enemy’ , ‘bitter quitters’, ‘religious -right’, ‘neo-con’ name-calling emits from the Democrats. It has been since the 60′s.
January 15th, 2011 on 5:45 pm
I think the left totally misses the point. By pointing to the leaders of the right as the main culprits behind this crime (a really ridiculous charge for anyone not blinded by hate) Dupnik started the hate mongering. The best he can do now is to apologize.
January 15th, 2011 on 5:53 pm
Typical remark from a Dem lib/leftwing dolt. Dipstick did what no real lawman would do. He put his personal leftwing political spin on an ongoing case. He gave ammo to the defense. How this clown was ever elected in the first place is a real mystery. Dems and libs are the worlds worst when it comes to law enforcement. They are all bleeding hearts and none have any concept of personal responsibility for crimes. Intelligent people (that would exclude most libs and Dems) must be terribly embarrassed by the blunders that clown has made. Further, Tucson needs to look at itself for being used as a stage for Barry Soetoro’s re election kick off. Shame on the whole town.
January 15th, 2011 on 5:51 pm
“As we have seen, the first public expression of disenchantment with nonviolence arose around the question of “self-defense.” In a sense this is a false issue, for the right to defend one’s home and one’s person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.” Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? Harper & Row Publishers Inc., First Edition, 1967.
January 15th, 2011 on 6:25 pm
It is amusing to hear the right wing try and connect Hitler/Nazi’s with anything left wing/democrat in America, Bush family patriarch was alleged to have ties to Nazi Germany pre-America entering the world war II, last I heard they were right wing, this book mentioned the shooter liked “Mein Kompf” was written by Hilter while he was jailed for trying to violently over throw the elected German government, what do we hear the teaparty/teapublicans threatening? Secession, seditioius/treasonous speech, threatening to excercise their 2nd amendment remedies if they don’t win at the ballot box? If this is not lunatics then I don’t know what is, we live in a country which has fought all these 10th amendment issue secession issues out, its done, decided, and anyone who advocates bullets versus the ballot box ought to be given a long term vacation in a federal facility vacation with a nice hard cell to sleep on and contemplate the error of their thinking and if they act on these seditious/treasonous speeches in time bygone they could have faced a gallows!
January 15th, 2011 on 10:52 pm
Wow! are most of these comments from people from Arizona? It so, I’ll stay as far away as I can from that state. Listen to the hate here. What’s wrong with you people? Many of you can’t listen to any voice of reason. You got your feelings hurt because the sheriff called you out and now your response is more hate. I think you prove his point. Good luck.
January 15th, 2011 on 10:52 pm
The irony of this story is just too much to believe. Dupnik blames irresponsible political speech on an event that was not politically motivated, but committed by a mentally unstable person That message was taken to heart by Mr. Fuller who has made threats at a political rally.
While I am not a fan of her’s, Sarah Palin was right when she said, “they incite the very hatred and violence that they purport to condemn”.
January 15th, 2011 on 10:58 pm
John–you obviously don’t know much about mentally/emotionally disturbed people to say what you just said. These people are influenced by the kind of hate speech that has been going on. Maybe they don’t have any political agendas and could care less about that. I have many friends who are therapists and they all say that many are stimulated and aggravated easily by this kind of talk. They work with these people every day and they should know.
January 15th, 2011 on 11:23 pm
I have a masters degree in counseling, so I have the training. I also have a cousin with schiophenia so I have firsthand experience. You can’t blame what a schizophrenic does on anything oher than their mental instability. You just don’t know what could have set of a person like that, saying you know is only conjecture.
January 16th, 2011 on 2:01 pm
For many years Sheriff Dupnik was a tremendous sheriff. He IS an elected official. He IS paid by taxpayers to protect us by sending out educated and reliable sheriffs to patrol our community. PCSD does a great job. Dupnik made some accurate remarks, but the way he said it is indicative of where he is in his career – its time for him to retire and he might consider Carmona as a replacement. Any time an elected official is getting continually soused at the local golf courses, has too many cocktails on official time, shows up red faced and ‘under the weather’…its a sign it is time to go. If he was young I’d say let him clean up his act and get back to business, but the time has come for him to pass the torch to someone who will not only say the right thing, he will tamper it and not make Tucson look like a terrible place. Tucson is a lovely community with all kinds of people. The Old Pueblo, Tucson, is rich in a Mexican heritage and residents from all over the world come here to live, to enjoy the beauty, to learn and study, to work, to relax. Like nearly every community we have our faults, but they are not that different than ANY community living along a border along Mexico. Because our tax base is much lower than other areas, we cannot afford to be like other communities whose average income level can afford certain things – its always been this way and its probably going to continue unless we educate all those who enter our door, and continue to try and keep out those who keep us from being able to do more. But, how can we do this? AZ needs to fix many things including mental health care and we need to try and keep guns out of the hands of those who are more inclined to abuse the priviledge of being allowed to carry them. There will always be an underground railroad of guns, and drugs and illegal activities..and those are things ANY community would not want in their backyard. When someone truly understands how AZ Sheriffs do their job on their budgets THEN you can critique AZ laws and talk reasonbaly about “parking lot sweeps’ and so forth. I am saddened so many tax paying (state and Federal) citizens, many hard working single parents fighting to work, go back to school, etc, are turned away for services when I personally know some undocumented people here are able to lie and then enjoy benefits they have never contributed towards. Many ARE nice people but there needs to be a line, somewhere. There are also many getting food stamps and other financial assistance who have committed crimes and are here on probation and still use county/state funds. For the 27 year old whose family brought him here at age 3 from Cuba, who married a US citizen, whose little girl is at UMC with leukemia, who is on probation (for a one time non violent offense)…my heart breaks that ICE is thinking about sending him back to his homeland where he knows no one. These are the stories I come into contact with daily on my job. This is a young man who works, who pays all his taxes and puts back into the system – this is the kind of person every state should want to try and help. It does not matter if you are left or right – this type of case is non partisian.
No, we cannot control what people do, who they listen to, nor what they do with the information they hear. No one can know what’s going on inside another person’s brain and how they will react, overreact. It is wrong to blame – wrong to blame anyone, any group, any ideology, any genre. We are all influenced by what we hear – all of us. Most of us have a filter, but not all. We can filter what comes in, filter how we process it and what we do with new info. Personally I would do away with listening to talk radio – give me a moderate and sensible approach to politics and living any day. Having a gun, using a gun does not make someone violent anymore than going to school makes one smart. Parking a a car in your home does not make it a garage. IT IS WHAT IT IS. Someone should have sent every nutcracker killer away BEFORE they hurt someone. Life is good, life is sad, life is life – ever changing and like an ocean pulling us to and fro. We just need to stop blaming – let Tucson people heal….people are affected on the left and right and no one is pleased. But we can move forward in a more positive direction. And places like this, don’t help. This is my last post anywhere – we each know what we know. Just use it wisely.
January 16th, 2011 on 3:16 pm
American citizens should think of the image of their country resulting from such a massacre. Should we come to the conclusion that anyone in the US is at risk just walking peacefully in the streets of Tucson or any other town because there is somewhere a deeply disturbed guy ( alway a guy..) who can buy a gun without question asked in any gun shop next door ? Just because the 2nd amendment allows it ? In some states, a bottle of Bordeaux wine can’t be easily bought whereas guns are sold all over the place.
If one considers the number of arms ( 200 millions ) in the uS, then there must be several thousands ( tens of thousands ? ) of disturbed people walking around in the US ready to kill anybody just by an impulse they can’t control. Frightening outlook. And the hate speech pronounced by some politicians can trigger violent reactions in weak minds. Hitler knew it. We’ve got a dramatic demo in Tucson.
January 16th, 2011 on 6:29 pm
I guess the author of this piece is saying that Sheriff Dupnik is responsible for the death threats made by Eric Fuller, who claims to have been injured by bullet “fragments”. Or did did I mis-read the double talk?
January 16th, 2011 on 8:23 pm
Vern:
When I saw Fuller interviewed on TV he said (or I thought) he said that the “bullet” went through his ankle and foot??!! Yet he drove to a hospital himself and was released the same day… (according to the TV interview). Now I read that it was fragments. If he was shot with a 9mm automatic I would think there would be more damage.
If Lee Harvey had been interviewed 10 times by the Dallas PD and the FBI dont you think something would have been done? Nobody checked to see if Jared Lougher owned a gun??
January 17th, 2011 on 8:27 am
Thank you for bringing these important issues to a head in light of the recent violence in Tucson. I want to caution you that although there is are parallels between Nazi Germany and our borders, it is not the same. The main and important difference is the fact that the coyotes, drug cartels and illegals are breaking the law. Yes, they have basic human rights. Yes, they should be treated humanly. The rape tree is a terrible crime against humanity and should not be tolerated. Law breakers also should not be tolerated. The border war must be waged. European nations do not tolerate illegals in their nations now, and there is not a return of Nazi type government. We must be careful that our law enforcement always takes the high road and works to preserve human rights while at the same time enforce the law. That is the beauty of our nation. As a citizen of a border state, I feel strongly that immigrants should be allowed to emigrate through the proper channels. And those who choose to take their chances and break the law, shall feel the consequences. When was it ever okay to break the law! It is not okay to Rape, to kill, to traffic drugs and it is not okay to enter the nation illegally. I have traveled the world and I have not ever assumed that I could trespass on another nation.
January 17th, 2011 on 9:09 am
You make the correct point that “hate speech” contributes to an unhealthy civil climate. You completely look past the facts that there is no evidence, not one exibit to produce to support the sheriffs remarks pertaining to Palin or Tea Party supporters. Worse still, his remarks venture right up to the line of irresponsible in by using a national platform on the heels of a horrific tradgedy to link the act of a sick man to a political movement. Your support of the sheriff’s comments and failure to provide context and critique demonstrates how far from the high calling of journalism your newspaper has fallen. Next time the topic of why print news is a failing enterprise, (I almost wrote dying enterprise but thought better as someone might construe that as hate speech.)..comes up, consider the possible answer is, you’ve lost your way. Where are the stories about the threats made by the shooting survivor? Why isn’t his overt hate speech against the Tea Party all over your paper? Please stop your nonesense.
January 17th, 2011 on 9:17 am
Well said. Jared laugher was a nut job. End of story.
January 20th, 2011 on 7:56 pm
…but it’s not the end of the story. Just look at these blogs. The assailant’s mental condition and wacky worldview is NOT even close to Tea Prarty, Palin, Talk Radio! That FACT is barely even a consideration to most and, as evidenced here, especially those who, because their whole political world view is embraced religiously and emotionally, can’t pause from their own frothing hate of all things conservative long enough to give reason a chance.
Listen to where the really looney talk is coming from…
Or better yet – make them listen to themselves.
January 17th, 2011 on 11:30 am
Am I missing something here? Dupnik’s statement to the press never mentioned anyone’s name, never mentioned any specific talk radio host and never mentioned any television station when lashing out at the incivility in our nation, which we all acknowledge exists. Looks like Dupnik is guilty of not being a name dropper.
Now all I hear the right wing do is invoke Dupnik’s name, while ridiculing him for saying it is time for civility. Glen Beck recently had a little skit on his show with a fake Dupnik calling in saying he was arresting a paddy wagon full of conservatives. Rush Limbaugh dedicated a 3 hour show attacking Dupnik.
After the resignation of 4 Republican party officials in Arizona because of threats from the tea party, I didn’t sea an article calling for them to do their duty and hold any criticism. Sheriff Dupnik has been called many times to investigate political threats of violence and I think his comments on the state of political vitriol is more than appropriate.
Barb Beneitone
January 21st, 2011 on 11:49 am
The right and extremist talk shows on specialized hate channels are broadcasting an horrendous image of the Land of the Free. On TV, we watch what you watch but from another point of view : When one seeds hate, one reaps hate. Especially with gun waving characters. In the middle of this pandemonium, disturbed young people go amok. Never forget the murderer is a victim too. He should not have been in such a situation as to buy a gun or a rifle as easily as a bag of popcorn. I wonder how many American citizens, kids or grown ups lose their life each year because of the 2nd amendment… Is there anyone on this forum who is able to mention how he would explain this to the parents of the deceased in Tucson ?