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Despite recent misses, Miller still landing good recruits

by on Apr. 19, 2010, under Sports
He may not be a top-100 player, but Arizona did not "settle" for MoMo Jones.

He may not be a top-100 player, but Arizona did not "settle" for MoMo Jones.

After the Wildcats lost out on three McDonald’s All-Americans in the past two weeks, many Arizona Wildcat basketball fans were stressing. Many felt that this meant that Sean Miller could not attract big time recruits and would have to settle for “projects”.

Fans on message boards, call-in shows and even my e-mail in-box felt that the Cats were reaching for lesser players. This just isn’t the case.

While it is true the Cats have failed to land a big time, game-ready, elite prospect, they certainly are not settling for players who are not solid prospects. In fact, Lute Olson’s last few teams “settled” far more than Miller has.

Miller’s first recruiting class featured four players in ESPN’s top-100. The only player who was not an ESPN top-100 player was MoMo Jones. Jones was a Rivals top-100 player and was recruited by the likes of Louisville, Florida, Memphis and USC among many others.

The rest of the class were all top-100 according to ESPN:

Kyryl Natyazhko #39

Solomon Hill #54

Derrick Williams #72 

Kevin Parrom #86

All of these players were recruited by elite programs. While none of them were top-25 players, or as highly ranked as Doron Lamb, Josh Selby or Ray McCallum, they were hardly borderline prospects headed to low majors had Arizona not swooped in and offered them a scholarship.

This year’s class is not quite as highly rated, but again, not full of slouches. Daniel Bejarano is a top 100 player, albeit rated #92 by ESPN. Jordin Mayes just missed the top-100, but Rivals tabbed him as #106. Mayes had offers from BC, Cal and Oklahoma among others.

JUCO transfer Jesse Perry was not eligible for the top-100 but had offers from a host of Big 12 and SEC schools.

Compare these two classes to the last few Lute Olson classes and you’ll see that Lute attracted a few more “elite” players but a lot more “reaches”. The 2008 class is a strange one. The school originally signed four players, three of whom were top-100 but when the smoke cleared, only two of those players arrived on campus and only the non-top-100 player (Brendan Lavender) every played a game for Arizona.

Because of the defections of Brandon Jennings and Emmanuel Negedu, the Cats had to scramble and took in Kyle Fogg, Garland Judkins and D.J. Shumpert. Of those only Fogg is still on the roster.

Some of the other reaches in the Olson era include Alex Jacobson, Kirk Walters, Daniel Dillon and Chris Dunn. The Cats also signed non top-100 players who did little in an Arizona uniform such as Zane Johnson, Jesus Verdejo and Laval-Lucas Perry.

It must be noted that standouts Nic Wise and Jordan Hill were not top-100 players, while guys like Chris Rodgers, Fendi Onobun and Jamelle Horne were all top-75 prospects who had less than illustrious Arizona careers.

Miller has yet to land a top-25 prospect, and to truly return Arizona to the national elite he will have to land some of these players, but he is still landing quality recruits. Five of his seven prep signees have been top-100 players, and the two who weren’t still had their share of top-notch suitors.

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  • PatCat

    2009 class was a miracle to land those 5!
    2010 is good to follow a deep 2009 (unlike Kentucky our 5 stayed)
    2011 Sidiki Johnson is a top-25 player, maybe a top-10

    As you pointed out,  it doesn’t matter where they start its how they finish!

  • jason

    not to be a naysayer, but you wrote an article saying “Miller still landing good recruits” and then say that their best recruit is ranked 92nd in the country. I’m not saying they aren’t good, but the casual fan would find that contradicting.

  • Brad Allis

    I consider a kid in the top-100, recruited by top-tier teams ”good”. Bejarano was recruited by Texas, Arizona, ASU (insert joke here) and a number of other Pac-10 and Big 12 schools. Mayes was lesser recruited, but still looking at solid programs like Cal and BC. UCLA, Mizzou, Bama, Ok State were those in on Perry. These are “good” teams and “good” programs. This isn’t like stealing Kyle Fogg from San Francisco or Garland Judkins from prep school. While they are not elite, they are not huge reaches either. Miller is bringing in legit kids.

  • mike

    If Miller lands Jack or Vargas this class will be just fine. Jack has huge upside and Vargas is a guy who would come in and immediately start at the 5 giving Arizona the best front court in the Pac ten. Throw in D.B a guy who can play both wing positions and has a great shot from deep plus a talented do it all J.C guy in Perry and this class will be very good. Don’t expect much from Mayes this year when he gets playing time it will be out of position at the 1 and I don’t see him doing much there

  • Mark Johnson

     Her is what is important. DB coming in was just outside a 5 star rating. As soon as players commit early, their stock drops quickly as they are no longer interesting.

    Second,  a second year seasoned D Williams is potentially a National All-American. Top 5 of all freshman this year.  

    Third, what did this team loose? DJ who never played and Wise who really did not live up to potential?  I would bet a 2nd year Momo will be better or equal to a 4th year Wise. The only difference is new higher quality players coming in and a healthy Kevin Parrom. This is BY FAR enough to get past about 10 close games this past year.

    They ran an article on Yahoo on how well last year’s 5 stars did. Average nationally in scoring was like 6 points a game. Momo, Parrom, D Will and Solo all did better than that. 2nd season with these four is like 4 5 stars coming in.

    AZ will content this year and beyond.

    • Kevin

      Wise didn’t live up to his potential?
      The kid was never recruited by Lute to be the leader of the team for 3 years. Lute brought him in as a role player to back up the likes of Shakur, Bayless, Gaddy, Jennings, etc.
      In fact, Nic greatly over-acheived during his career, in spite of the circumstances.
      I think you are mistaking him for the “golden child” Mustafa Shakur.

  • Mark Johnson

     I should also add the value of continuity. FINALLY, existing players will have the same coach for two years in a row. This is not being mentioned as a benefit much but when current players can practice off season to the current coaches plays, plans, defensive set ups, etc., we will finally see the benefits of some ancillary leverage.

    Between 5 freshman now seasoned players for one year and the same coach for two years, it really it would have been enough to have won 10 more games this past season. 

  • AlleyCat

    Please don’t bag so hard on Nic.  He’s a class act.  It could have been a lot worse this year had he gone over seas.  He deserves a lot of credit for sticking it through.

  • lexg

    I agree about not hatin Nic.  His loyalty to a program that swapped his head coach every 10 months or so…well, you have to respect Nic for hanging around last year.  He didn’t lose us any games and won us more than a few.

  • lexg

    Also, take a good look at the four Final 4 teams this year.  Duke, Butler, Michigan State and WVU.  How many of those teams were loaded with top 50 talent?  Just Duke.  Michigan State had some studs too but Lucas, there highest rated player, was out injured for most of the tournament.  The point I’m making is that teams like Kentucky that stock up on the young one-and-done players do well.  They make the tournament.  But rarely do they win the championship or even make it to the final four.  Great teams do.  Even Duke had great senior leadership from Scheyer and the big center (can’t think of his name) – both four year players.  The GREATEST freshmen team of ALL time (Michigan 1992) couldn’t win it all…so let’s not put too much into great freshmen players.  Let’s get “very good” players that will stay for four years!!  That’s how you win.  Yea, Bibby was instrumental as a freshmen on our championship team, but he couldn’t have done it without Juniors like Miles Simon, Mike D.  And seniors like Bennett Davidson (Juco transfer like Perry this coming season). 

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  • Marco

    Miller’s best accomplishment thus far as the Arizona coach is landing the 5 recruits in the 1 month whirlwind after he accepted the job. That created some buzz…but, if you take a closer look and examine how those recruits committed is Miller really to be credited, or was he just lucky?
    Kevin Parrom and Kyril (he better work this summer) can definitely be attributed to Sean Miller. Landing Solomon Hill, Derek Williams, and Mo Mo Jones seem to be a bit of a stroke of luck, rather than anything Miller did in recruiting them. If Floyd and USC doesn’t have those infractions, only Hill may have still decommitted, but that is more for his love of Arizona basketball and what Lute Olson built rather than Coach Miller. Miller benefited from USC’s downfall, and at that point he could easily sell playing time to get those recruits to come over….which he did. Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good? Time will only tell how that pans out.
    If you look at Miller’s 1st recruiting class in that light it’s not nearly as impressive as the media would like to portray…or fans like to contend. My knee jerk reaction as a Arizona Alum and fan was that Miller was doing an amazing job…but when I looked deeper into the facts, I can rationally and objectively view that Miller was more lucky than good in this case. Miller’s recruit Kyril didn’t look like he had any business on a college basketball floor. Miller’s recruit Parrom exhibited toughness when he played and was a decent defender, but is lacking on the offensive side in terms of the caliber that we know and love as Arizona Basketball. These kids are now sophomores and have room to grow, but a 1 year review leaves much more to desire.
    I think in the long run Miller could be the right hire, but looking at Arizona’s current recruit list for 2010 & 2011 Miller still hasn’t been able to attract the elite level recruit…a la McDonald’s All-Americans. 2 or 3 a year isn’t necessary like what Calipari is doing, but at least 1 every 2 years is necessary for Arizona to get back to elite level in NCAA basketball. What scares me is that Miller has not been able to land one of these guys in his career.
    He was recently quoted something like ” that if there are elite young players who need a big stage to commit to their basketball program, that he’d rather they go somewhere else”…he said that in reference to the growing trend of McDonald’s All-American’s who commit via press conference on ESPNU or during half-times of televised All-Star games…well, the problem is that this is the reality of kids these days. Sean can’t be that out of touch to recognize that, can he? In today’s recruiting landscape college coaches need to suck it up and know that young talent is looking for that forum. As a fan, I’m okay with Miller feeling that way and I agree with him, but as a coach of a Major College Basketball Team he can’t go on the record and say that. It will only discourage top players in the future.
    I was going to give Miller to the 2011 season to recruit a Top 10 player, but when I look over at Memphis and see what rookie coach Josh Pastner is doing by locking up not 1, but 3 McDonald’s All-Americans and the #1 recruiting class of the 2010 season I do begin to worry that Miller may not have that same pull. I do admit Pastner is fortunate that 2 of those top recruits live in Memphis and likely were headed to Memphis regardless of who was coach, but none the less Pastner was able to sell himself to 3 All-Americans. Looking at the seasons that both Memphis and Arizona had last year and I would be hard pressed to find anyone who didn’t think Pastner was more successful. Calipari depleted Pastner’s team, yet Josh got them to 24 wins….maybe Josh is ready for Arizona.
    I’m willing to give Miller more time, but with the recent spurn by a top rated recruits like McCallum, Selby, and Lamb it seems like a trend that I don’t think any Arizona fan can be comfortable with.

    • kevinp

      “If you look at Miller’s 1st recruiting class in that light it’s not nearly as impressive as the media would like to portray…or fans like to contend”

      I don’t think that assessment is entirely fair. Yes, it was very lucky, BUT, I think you have to give him credit for getting the best possible outcome from that situation. He could’ve have just as easily dropped that ball and missed out on any or all of those guys.
      I mean, he only had so many options available to him, and he made the best out of those options. You couldn’t have expected him to steal away 5 star guys that were already committed elsewhere could you?
      Of course not. So he took full advantage of what was available. You can’t slight him for that.

  • George

    Marco it is really big of you that you are ‘willing’ to give Coach Miller more than one year to turn the program around.  No doubt he appreciates it.

  • Brad Allis

    Top-10 players are not a measure of success and I’d argue that they are a detriment when they are one and done.Heck, even top-25 is no guarantee of success. Since 1998 the Wildcats have signed 10 top-20 recruits. Jason GardnerChris RodgersHassan AdamsMustafa ShakurNdudi EbiJawann McClellanChase BudingerJamelle HorneJerryd BaylessBrandon Jennings Rodgers, Ebi, Horne and Jennings have not been impact players, while Bayless was one and done, McClellan battled injuries and Shakur was a four-year starter who still failed to live up to expectations. Even Adams had a difficult end to his career, though he was four-year contributor and the No. 7 scorer in school history. 

  • Marco

    Brad-   Here is a list of the National Champions since 1988: Kansas, Michigan, UNLV, DUKE,DUKE,N.Carolina, Arkansas, UCLA, Kentucky, Arizona, Kentucky, UCONN, Mich State, Duke, Maryland, Syracuse, UCONN, N. Carolina, Florida, Florida, Kansas, N.Carolina, Duke…

    every one of those teams had players who were ranked as Top 10 recruits coming out of highschool.  Do some simple research and try to refute that fact Brad…fact is, you can’t. 

    Getting a 5 Star player is not guaranteeing success as some players like Shakur disappoint, but the fact that every Champion since 1988 had at least one of those players on the team demonstrates the need for the top caliber talent to achieve the highest degree of success.

    Lute Olson understood that, which is why every 1-2 years he would add a McDonald’s All-American or 5 Star recruit.  The blend of the elite talent with role players is the receipe of success that Lute used for 35 years at Iowa & Arizona.

    So far in his 9 year coaching Career, Sean Miller has landed exactly 0.0 5 Star recruits/ McDonald’s All-Americans.  Pastner in his 2nd year has landed 3….you don’t take any issue with that?  Why not?

    One and dones a detriment?  Really?  Hard (sarcasm) to argue that point of view when you have Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose, Kevin Love, Tyreke Evans, Greg Oden, Mike Conely, Daequan Cook, John Wall, Demarcus Cousins, Kevin Durant, ect…ect…. as Freshmen these guys were all the best players on their teams and led them deep in the NCAA tourney….you look at their programs, Syracuse, Kentucky, Texas, Ohio State, Memphis, UCLA….these are all programs that are still relevant Top/Elite programs in NCAA basketball.  Only UCLA and Memphis faltered, but Memphis was due more in part because of Calipari’s antics, and UCLA’s incoming Freshmen the last 2 years just didn’t perform to their projected abilities.  Will UCLA rebound?  Most likely…so I don’t see how one and done players really hurt any of these schools.

    Brad if you don’t think the elite players are necessary, I guess you don’t mind if the team you support never wins anything.  I on the other hand appreciate the greatness and longevity of what Lute built in Tucson, and if Sean Miller isn’t careful he’ll never get Arizona back as a legit Title Contender year in and year out. 

    It only takes 2 more years of not bringing in top talent for kids to completely discard Arizona when it comes time for them to choose where they are going to go to school.  That is what Miller seems to not understand.  We are in the age of where the kid chooses the University, not the other way around.  I hope Miller figures it out before it’s too late and Arizona completley fades from the national landscape in College Basketball.

  • portlandcatfan

    This is an interesting debate but one that cannot be won.  One says recruiting high level talent is necessary; the other, that recruiting high level talent is not sufficient.  You are both right; congratulations.

  • Brad Allis

    Where do I ever say you don’t need elite players? All I said was that one and dones can be a detriment and that top-25 was not the end all be all.

    Look at your list of national champions, how many had a one and done? Mello led Syracuse, Marvin Williams was a key role player for UNC. That’s it. No other one and done has won a NC since Mello did it.

    It can work for teams. Ohio State benefitted from Oden and Conley, but dropped off significantly until this year. This year they were talented, but lacked size in the middle. Why? BJ Mullens left after a year and they did not have a back-up plan in recruiting.

    While Love was great for UCLA, losing Jrue Holiday this year was cripling. Memphis is probably the one program that has done well with one and dones.

    Recent one and done studs like Kevin Durant, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasly, Jerryd Bayless, Eric Gordon and Spencer Hawes did not make it out of the first weekend.

    Of course we are splitting hairs. I think we can all agree that the teams you listed above had one thing in common…NBA talent. Frankly, this year’s Duke team may have the last of any in the past 10 years. The fact is, right now Miller has brought just one surefire NBA player to Arizona and that is Derrick Williams. We don’t know if anyone else on the roster is NBA caliber. The fact is whether they are a top-25 or a top-225 player,  the Cats need more talent. Miller has not brought in dregs, but as of now he probably needs a few more elite players to take Arizona to the next level.

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  • Marco

    agreed that we need better talent…I misinterprented your title of the blog and your statement then when you said ” Top-10 players are not a measure of success”…. they can be hit and miss as you and I both allude to, but when every Champion from the last 20+ years has those elite players it definitely can be used to measure success. 

    Regardless, when guys like Doron Lamb make comments like ” they just don’t have enough players over there” in reference to why he chose not to go to Arizona it could have a potential lingering affect if Miller doesn’t step up his recruiting game….other strange thing is most of these top recruits don’t list Miller, they list their relationships with Book.  That gives me the sense that Miller may rely a bit too much on Book and needs to get in the thick of things.  I could be wrong there, but it’s just the sense I am getting from the kids comments.

    I wouldn’t mind so much that Miller isn’t landing 5 Star elite talent when younger guys like Josh Pastner are if Miller was known to be a guy that groomed players into NBA talent…unforutnatley he doesn’t have that coaching pedigree either.

    I think Arizona has a solid high character coach in Sean Miller, but I’m not sure he is ready for the big time.  Only time will tell, but if we continue to have subpar recruiting classes time will no longer be on his side.

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