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Wry Heat - by Jonathan DuHamel

The Case Against the IPCC and Proponents of Dangerous Anthropological Global Warming

by on Mar. 06, 2012, under Climate change

In my posts on climate change, I have tried to present evidence that natural variation explains most, if not all, climate changes we have experienced. That, of course, has produced many comments and arguments from proponents of anthropogenic global warming: those who contend that our carbon dioxide emissions, mostly from burning fossil fuels, are the principle cause of recent warming and that the warming is dangerous. I disagree with that contention.

Dr. S. Fred Singer, writing in American Thinker, has an essay titled “Climate Deniers Are Giving Us Skeptics a Bad Name.” In that article, Dr. Singer takes both “warmistas” as he calls AGW proponents, and “deniers” to task. Below, I reproduce the portion of the essay where Dr. Singer takes on the IPCC and warmistas. You can read the entire essay and comments here.

For those who don’t know: Dr. S. Fred Singer is professor emeritus at the University of Virginia and director of the Science & Environmental Policy Project, specializing in climate science and energy policy. “An expert in remote sensing and satellites, he served as the founding director of the US Weather Satellite Service and, more recently, as vice chair of the US National Advisory Committee on Oceans & Atmosphere.” He is also a member of the Heartland Institute.

Dr. Singer writes:

The warmistas, generally speaking, populate the U.N.’s IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) and subscribe to its conclusion that most of the temperature increase of the last century is due to carbon-dioxide emissions produced by the use of fossil fuels. At any rate, this is the conclusion of the most recent IPCC report, the fourth in a series, published in 2007. Since I am an Expert Reviewer of IPCC, I’ve had an opportunity to review part of the 5th Assessment Report, due in 2013. Without revealing deep secrets, I can say that the AR5 uses essentially the same argument and evidence as AR4 — so let me discuss this “evidence” in some detail.

 IPCC-AR4 uses only the global surface temperature (GST) record. It exhibits a rapid rise in 1910-1940, a slight decline in 1940-1975, a sharp “jump” around 1976-77 — and then a steady increase up to 2000 (except for the temperature “spike” of the 1998 Super-El Niño). No increase is seen after about 2001.

 Most everyone seems to agree that this earlier increase (1910-1940) is caused by natural forces whose nature the IPCC does not specify. Clearly, the decline of 1940-1975 does not fit the picture of an increasing level of carbon dioxide, nor do the “jump” and “spike.” So the IPCC uses the increase between 1978 and 2000 as evidence for human (anthropogenic) global warming (AGW).

 Their argument is somewhat strained, and their evidence is questionable. They claim that their models simulating the temperature history of the 20th century show no warming between 1970 and 2000 — when they omit the warming effect of the steady, slow CO2 increase. But once they add the CO2 increase into the models, they claim good agreement with the reported global surface temperature record. Ergo evidence for AGW.

 There are three things wrong with the IPCC argument. It depends very much on detailed and somewhat arbitrary choices of model inputs — e.g., the properties and effects of atmospheric aerosols, and their temporal and geographic distribution. It also makes arbitrary assumptions about clouds and water vapor, which produce the most important greenhouse forcings. One might therefore say that the IPCC’s evidence is nothing more than an exercise in curve-fitting. According to physicist Freeman Dyson, the famous mathematician John von Neumann stated: “Give me four adjustable parameters and I can fit an elephant. Give me one more, and I can make his trunk wiggle.”

 The second question: can the IPCC fit other climate records of importance besides the reported global surface record? For example, can they fit northern and southern hemisphere temperatures using the same assumptions in their models about aerosols, clouds, and water vapor? Can they fit the atmospheric temperature record as obtained from satellites, and also from radiosondes carried in weather balloons? The IPCC report does not show such results, and one therefore suspects that their curve-fitting exercise may not work, except with the global surface record.

 The third problem may be the most important and likely also the most contested one. But first let me parse the IPCC conclusion, which depends crucially on the reported global surface warming between 1978 and 2000. As stated in their Summary for Policymakers (IPCC-AR4, vol 1, page 10): “Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations.”

 But what if there is little to no warming between 1978 and 2000? What if the data from thousands of poorly distributed weather stations do not represent a true global warming? The atmospheric temperature record between 1978 and 2000 (both from satellites and, independently, from radiosondes) doesn’t show a warming. Neither does the ocean. And even the so-called proxy record — from tree rings, ice cores, ocean sediments, corals, stalagmites, etc. — shows mostly no warming during the same period.

 

Dr. Singer points out that the IPCC relies heavily on modeling and assumptions while actually presenting little physical evidence to support its position. The same has been my experience with commenters on this blog. The issue is important because of all the money being spent to try to prevent catastrophic global warming that seems to exist only in models. The tragedy is that money would be better spent on real problems. Also, “dioxycarbophobia,” the fear of carbon dioxide, is driving government agencies, especially the EPA, into policies that do grave harm to our economy, jobs, and even national security – all based on an unsupported concept that is more political than scientific.

It is the job of scientists to be skeptical, and I remain so.

UPDATE:

Commenters below invoke the authority of reports by NASA, NOAA, EPA, USFWS, USFS, USDA and other agencies. Dr. Craig Loehle has read many of these reports and finds them “usually vague on details of what bad things are expected to happen…” Loehle says “The true story is far from alarming.” For instance, here is his take on the specter of ocean acidification:

“One government draft report indicated that ocean pH has decreased (become more acid) by 0.1 units, and that this represents a 30% increase in acidity since 1750. Because pH is a log scale, estimating percent increases in acidity is problematic and a change of 0.1 units could not represent a 30% change in acidity as stated. A serious issue not addressed by the report is that a global time series of pH data for the oceans does not exist. Thus, the provenance of the 0.1 unit change in value is dubious, and the confidence intervals on such an estimate would no doubt be large. Furthermore, daily, seasonal, and between year pH fluctuations at any given location are on the order of ±0.3 pH units or more (Middelboe and Hansen 2007; Pelejero et al. 2005).”

Read more here.

 

See also:

Journalist Donna LaFramboise’s exposé on the IPCC: The Delinquent Teenager Who Was Mistaken for the World’s Top Climate Expert, an IPCC Exposé.

The Assumed Authority



  • anderlan

    CO2 is the main IR retaining constituent of the atmo, after water.  And water is transitory while CO2 is more consistent and fully mixed.  And CO2 has gone up 30% since 1950 and 40% in total since 1800, in lock step with fossil fuel use increasing.  

    There’s been concern about this trend for 150 years, but not seriously, because no one ever dreamed that fossil use would expand as much as it has.  No one ever imagined we’d pass the concentration level that we did in the the ’50s for hundreds of years.  But we’ve flown past it.

    Who can argue that a CO2 level above 350ppm, the highest it’s been in 2 million  years, isn’t (at most) where we should have stopped?  We are at 393ppm, the highest in 15 million years, and  we keep rocketing upward.

    So, the majority of publishing climate scientists are worried about this. 

    Not only the average temperature is affected by this, meaning longer droughts, but the water content of the atmo, meaning heavier downpours.  What do those things mean for crop yield, food prices and famine, economic stability and depression, political stability and war? And there’s acidification of the ocean, which is on track to be the highest in 300 million years because of the speed of the CO2 change.   What does that mean for fish yield, food prices, instability and war?  Plus, polar sea ice has stablized winter weather for generations.  But now it is decreased 30% since we’ve been measuring it.  What if we are experiencing the last wacked out winters before the cap disappears.  What happens then?

    So, the majority of publishing climate scientists are worried about fossil carbon.
    And a few non-working non-climate scientists who have had dealings with the fossil fuel industry keep bringing up the same arguments that we keep going through again and again and again.  A picture is painted where improving technology and moving to renewable energy is some sort of socialist plot that will hurt the economy and ruin freedom.  So a fearful public is desperate to hear and believe the defeated sciency sounding arguments.

    I don’t have a spirit of fear, but of hope and capability in the face of risk. Risk that we can do something about, by decreasing, definitely and provably, fossil carbon emissions, while growing the economy and improving quality of life for hundreds of years.

    • Jonathan_Duhamel

      Even if the CO2 level is highest it has been in 2 million years or 15 million years (which is it?) present no evidence that it is producing unusual warming or warming outside natural variation.  As for ocean acidification, another bogeyman,  see:
      http://tucsoncitizen.com/wryheat/2009/12/14/ocean-acidification-by-carbon-dioxide/

      • anderlan

        It’s disturbingly high any way you look at it.

        http://www.physorg.com/news164553313.html 
        “The authors show that peak CO2 levels over the last 2.1 million years averaged only 280 parts per million; but today, CO2 is at 385 parts per million, or 38% higher. ”

        That is from ’09 (385ppm).  *Peak* levels for 2 million years were 280ppm.  We were at 280 in 1800.  That is what we *really* should be aiming at.  I (and 350.org) am giving you all the uncertainty and wishfulness you should desire by only thinking we should shoot for 350.

        http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/last-time-carbon-dioxide-levels-111074.aspx 
        “The last time carbon dioxide levels were apparently as high as they are today — and were sustained at those levels — global temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit higher than they are today, the sea level was approximately 75 to 120 feet higher than today, there was no permanent sea ice cap in the Arctic and very little ice on Antarctica and Greenland,” 

        I’m probably being overly optimistic and negligent of future life and welfare.  You definitely are.

        Let us assume that all of the literature showing an increase in average temp, and decreased ice and changing seasonal patterns is somehow wrong.  Let’s say I can’t bring anything to the table on that.

        How can that much of an increase in the secondary greenhouse gas NOT be contributing a great deal to the temperature?

        How can an increase in CO2 being dissolved in the ocean, from a high schooler’s perspective, even, NOT increase the acidity of the oceans?

        • Jonathan_Duhamel

          Anderlan,

          The low CO2 values you assume come mainly from ice core analysis. There is a big assumption with those figures: the CO2 values in ice core bubbles accurately reflect atmospheric conditions some time in the past. However, that may be an unwarranted assumption especially since values derived from ice core do not agree with value derived from other proxies.

          Please see my post Ice Core Bubbles and carbon dioxide:

          http://tucsoncitizen.com/wryheat/2012/01/12/ice-core-bubbles-and-carbon-dioxide/

          • john_parsons

            Anyone reading the link Jon posted should examine the comments section where Jon’s attempt to create controversy surrounding ice core analysis is thoroughly debunked. JP

          • anderlan

            The CO2 hypothesis is still a very strong theory, very worth covering our asses to be sure.  What is your big, internally consistent picture?  You’ve also got to knock down the methods in the 2 papers I cited must be knocked down.  The re-radiation signature of increased CO2 measured by satellites.  The basic properties of CO2.  The postwar rise in CO2 being in lockstep with fossil use, even slowing nicely during recessions. 

            You’re saying all the evidence and analysis is flawed, in a particular direction, that just happens to line up well with basic physical theory?  God is tricking us, or there’s a conspiracy?  Is that what you’re saying?

            All the pieces reinforce an integrated picture.  What is your integrated picture, or are you just grasping?

      • john_parsons

        Seems that Jon’s post from 2009 is getting a little stale.

        “Oceans may be acidifying at an accelerated rate (a 300 million year high) due to emissions, according to a study recently published in the journal Science. The Earth Institute at Columbia University revealed Thursday that humans have increased carbon emission levels by 30 percent and decreased the pH of the oceans by 30 percent over the last hundred years.” For more:   http://www.thestatecolumn.com/articles/2012/03/05/ocean-acidification-reaches-300-million-year-high-due-to-carbon-emissions/

        Jon speaks of organisms evolving at lower ph in the past, but ignores the critical evolutionary principle that few genetic mutations (even less for genetic drift) allow organisms to make such an evolutionary leap so quickly.

        Jon also seems to be unaware of recent research that shows ocean ph makes significant very short term swings that would skew his “… ocean pH has oscillated between pH of 7.91 and 8.29 during the past seven thousand years.” Yes it made those limits but likely did so for very brief periods. In other words, most organisms can handle a brief period of higher or lower ph. They can’t survive long term ph changes that happen quickly, too quickly for evolutionary adaptation.   JP

    • Jonathan_Duhamel

      Anderlan: Perhaps you are not aware that geologic and isotopic evidence shows that atmospheric content of CO2 has been above 1,000 ppm for most of the last 500 million years. See, for instance: Berner, R.A. and Kothavala, Z., 2001, GEOCARB III: A revised model of atmospheric CO2 over Phanerozoic time: Am. J. Sci., v. 301, p. 182-204.

      • john_parsons

        And how hot was it then Jon? JP

      • anderlan

        Of course I know that. Surely you don’t mean that 15 million years is most of 500 million years? If you’ve found a newer reviewed article that contradicts the finding that CO2 hasn’t been above 390ppm for the last 15 million years, please present it clearly.

        I’ll proceed on the assumption you know that 15 is NOT most of 500.

        Is it a good idea to change the earth to how it was 500 or even 15 million years ago? Do you even know how alien the world was 500 million years ago? Did you know that h. sapiens evolved in just the last 2 million years?

        Did you know that >1000ppm is deleterious to human and many modern mammals’ health?  How can you be willing to endanger the entire world’s health?

        Shameful, wilful, knowing recklessness and pell-mell reverse terraforming.  I can’t even fathom the  obstinance.

        Surely these arguments are not the crux of your belief. They are pathetic to any outside observer. Surely there is something more substantial, closer to your heart than this? Do not be a lawyer, but argue what you believe wholly, not ancillary points that you may or may not believe but you think you can win. Let us talk as friends or scientists, not as debaters or lawyers.

        I mean, don’t argue a point with me based on a platform that you don’t actually believe. Get down to the base of your understanding. I’m tired of arguing and winning but then finding out the stipulations to that argument weren’t even truly accepted by the person who was arguing with me as if they believed the underpinning.

        The consensus paints a consistent idea of what’s going on. In order to challenge it, you have to have an equally whole, integral, self-consistent explanation of things. Presently the skeptics are all over the map, there’s no coherent, consistent alternative view.

        It’s criminally negligent to entirely disregard the probable risk.

  • John Dodds

    Just how can you trust an IPCC which claims that Solar insolation is the SOLE source of warming energy? They are saying that radiocative decay heat which Nature Geoscience July 2011 says is 52% of Earths heat, DOES NOT EXIST. IPCC is saying that the moon can NOT cause tidal energy. IPCC is saying that Gravity from the sun & planets can not cause warming or cooling- Right!!!  It does not get colder when you move further away from a heat source. IPCC is denying valid normal science. Any one of the four basic forces can  transfer energy or heat. To deny this, and claim that ONLY solar based eloctromagnetic force (E/M sunlight) can cause warming, is denying Newton and basic science.
    It is time to defund the anti-science IPCC. THEY LIE

    • john_parsons

      Mr. Dodds, Please provide a link to the Nature Geoscience paper you referred to. I looked at the issue you mention and could not find where they say that radioactive decay is “52% of Earth’s heat”. JP

    • john_parsons

      Mr. Dodds, You are confused. 52% of the heat that comes FROM the Earth comes from radioactive decay. Not 52% of the Earth’s radiative budget. The Earth receives about 340 W/m^2 solar radiation compared to 0.08W/m^2 from radioactive decay. Put another way, 99.7% from the sun. The “IPCC is saying the moon cannot cause tidal energy…” Oh really. Just when and where did they say a ridiculous thing like that? JP

  • Jonathan_Duhamel

    Note to John Parsons:

    The last time you used a personal attack, I told you that was the last time I would tolerate such a comment. Your long diatribe is again attacking the messenger rather than addressing the issue. I have therefore deleted your comment. You are very good at deflecting a request for physical evidence, and have so far presented none of the “overwhelming” evidence you claim exists.

    • john_parsons

      Jon, You’ve seen the evidence. But because you now say you haven’t, here it is. From NASA and The National Climate Data Center:
      Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.
      All four major global surface temperature reconstructions show that Earth has warmed since 1880. Most of this warming has occurred since the 1970s, with the 20 warmest years having occurred since 1981 and with all 10 of the warmest years occurring in the past 12 years. 
      Even though the 2000s witnessed a solar output decline resulting in an unusually deep solar minimum in 2007-2009, surface temperatures continue to increase. 
      The oceans have absorbed much of this increased heat, with the top 700 meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of 0.302 degrees Fahrenheit since 1969.
      The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA’s Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005.
      Both the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades. 
      Glaciers are retreating almost everywhere around the world — including in the Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rockies, Alaska and Africa.
      The number of record high temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. 
      Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent. This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.

       In pre-industrial times over the last 10,000 years, CO2 was relatively stable at around 275 to 285 parts per million. Over the last 250 years, atmospheric CO2 levels have increased by about 100 ppm. In  1970, NASA launched the IRIS satellite measuring infrared spectra, and
      in 1996, the Japanese Space Agency launched the IMG satellite which recorded similar observations. Both sets of data were compared to discern any changes in outgoing radiation over the 26 year period.  What they found was a drop in outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as CO2 and methane (CH4) absorb energy. The change in outgoing radiation was consistent with theoretical expectations. Thus we have found  direct experimental evidence for a significant increase in the Earth’s greenhouse effect. This result has been confirmed by subsequent papers using data from later satellites.
      When greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation, the energy heats the atmosphere which in turn re-radiates infrared radiation in all directions. Some makes its way back to the earth’s surface. Hence we expect to find more infrared radiation heading downwards. Surface measurements from 1973 to 2008 find an increasing trend of infrared radiation returning to earth. Taking this a step further, an analysis of high resolution spectral data allowed scientists to quantitatively attribute the increase in downward radiation to each of several greenhouse gases. The results lead those scientists to conclude that “this experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming.”
      Our planet’s biosphere is accumulating heat.When there is more energy coming in than escaping back out to space, our climate accumulates heat. The planet’s total heat build up can be derived by adding up the heat content from the ocean, atmosphere, land and ice. Ocean heat content was determined down to 3000 metres deep. Atmospheric heat content was calculated from the surface temperature record and heat capacity of the troposphere. Land and ice heat content (eg – the energy required to melt ice) were also included. From 1970 to 2003, the planet has accumulated 190,260 Gigawatts of heat. As an example, a large nuclear power plant produces about 1 Gigawatt. A map of of ocean heat from 2003 to 2008 was constructed from ocean heat measurements down to 2000 meters deep. Globally, the oceans have continued to accumulate heat to the end of 2008 at a rate of 0.77 ± 0.11 W/m2,  consistent with other determinations of the planet’s energy imbalance. The planet continues to accumulate heat.
      So we see a direct line of evidence that CO2 in our atmosphere is causing global warming. The enhanced greenhouse effect is confirmed by satellite and surface measurements. The planet’s energy imbalance is confirmed by summations of the planet’s total heat content and ocean heat measurements.

      Please don’t keep saying you haven’t seen the evidence. JP

      • Jonathan_Duhamel

        John, you have presented evidence of a warming cycle, but not that increasing carbon dioxide is the major cause. The fact that we still get warm and cool cycles and long periods of net level temperature, in spite of steadily increasing CO2, shows that CO2 is not a strong influence on global temperature. See UAH global temperature for February here: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/03/uah-global-temperature-update-for-february-2012-0-12-deg-c/

        The satellite temperature record shows no influence of carbon dioxide.

        • DavidErickson

          Jon, of course you know that Roy Spencer’s satellite results have been responded to in the research press, and have been found to not change any of the fundamental findings about the recent increase in global average temperature.

          You are bringing in the old “correlation is not causation” argument. Based on this argument it is possible to reject, for example, the theory that a nucleaus causes alpha particle scattering.

          The point of all the scientific work that has been going on for the last 40-50 years is to find the best explanation for the anomalous increase in global average temperature that has been occurring over the past 100-150 years and has been accelerating over the past 50. The theoretical work has been to explain the anomaly. The warming that is occurring, globally, is outside the parameters of what has been seen in the past 900,000 years and likely in the last 15 million. In other words, it is not “normal”, i.e., anomalous. No natural causes have been identified that can explain this anomaly. The only remaining causative factor is the increase in greenhouse gases caused by fossil fuel combustion and deforestation. This is established, settled science.

          “Skeptics” such as Singer, Spencer, the Heartland Institute, have attempted to attack this science using three primary approaches:
          1. The planet is not really warming.
          2. The planet is warming, but it can be entirely explained by natural causes.
          3. The planet is warming, greenhouse gas concentrations are related, but they are a small factor and not causative.

          So far, these approaches have not yielded a single peer-reviewed paper that shows an alternative explanation for the anomalous warming described above. There was a paper by Svensmark recently that claimed that cosmic ray flux could increase cloud formation and that might be a factor. However, there has been no increase in cosmic ray flux that correlates with the warming.

          So here’s really the bottom line for you: The increase in CO2 in the atmosphere over the past 250 years due to fossil fuel combustion and deforestation is the best explanation currently for the anomalous warming that has been observed. Until you, or the community that you apparently represent can come up with a better explanation, based on the same evidence, that is accepted by the broad consensus of the research community, we must, as a society, act on the basis of that explanation.

          • john_parsons

            David, Thanks for a such a succinct and enlightening synopsis. Very nicely done. JP

          • Jonathan_Duhamel

            Looking at the temperature variations of the last 10,000 years shows that current temperatures and the rate of rise and fall is not unusual. 

            No good scientist would agree with you that the science is settled.  To say it is settled is the ultimate appeal to authority, an invalid form of argument, and a lack of understanding of how science works.  Even Einstein’s general theory is not settled science. 

            • DavidErickson

              Jon,
              You: “not unusual”…wrong. From IPCC Fourth AR:

              It is very likely that the current atmospheric concentrations of CO2 (379 ppm) and CH4 (1,774 ppb) exceed by far the natural range of the last 650 kyr. Ice core data indicate that CO2 varied within a range of 180 to 300 ppm and CH4 within 320 to 790 ppb over this period. Over the same period, antarctic temperature and CO2 concentrations co-vary, indicating a close relationship between climate and the carbon cycle

            • DavidErickson

              Regarding recent warming: settled. Regarding cause being forcing due to increased GHG concentration: settled. Regarding cause of increase in GHG concentration: settled.

              What is not settled is the rate of future increase and the magnitude of the effects. The effects of warming on global climate are better and better understood, and changes in climate that were predicted by the models are occurring.

              As far as your statement “no good scientist,”it’s a matter of me agreeing with the scientists, not the other way around. Every scientific association of climate-related researchers has signed on to the conclusions of the IPCC, including AGU, WMA, National Academy of Science, etc. I’m not appealing to authority, I’m simply citing what is well-known and well-understood by the scientific research community.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/RB65VXO27HEF7HKJMZDSP7LU4E Adam

        JP

        “Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century.”

        But that says nothing about what the forces which caused the sea level to rise. There is no evidence it was due to CO2.

        “The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.”

        Complete nonsense. There was no significant upward trend in the rate of sea level rise over the past decade, and the rate has actually slowed over the past 6 years
        http://sealevel.colorado.edu/files/2012_rel1/sl_ns_global.png

        “Most of this warming has occurred since the 1970s, with the 20 warmest
        years having occurred since 1981 and with all 10 of the warmest years
        occurring in the past 12 years. ”

        Most of that is probably due the the UHIE since the satellites show a lot less warming over the same period
        http://pielkeclimatesci.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/r-345.pdf

        “Even though the 2000s witnessed a solar output decline resulting in an
        unusually deep solar minimum in 2007-2009, surface temperatures continue
        to increase. ”

        No they didn’t
        http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:2001/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:2001/trend/plot/rss-land/from:2001/plot/rss/from:2001/trend

        “The oceans have absorbed much of this increased heat, with the top 700
        meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of 0.302 degrees
        Fahrenheit since 1969.”

        Except the heat is actually a lot less than what the models predicted. This is strong evidence against the CAGW theory
        http://joannenova.com.au/2010/10/is-the-western-climate-establishment-corrupt-part-3/
        http://joannenova.com.au/2011/12/the-travesty-of-the-
        missing-heat-deep-ocean-or-outer-space/

        “Both the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades. ”

        That’s evidence of warming, not what caused the warming. Read the papers on the arctic
        http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html#Arctic

        “Both sets of data were compared to discern any changes in outgoing
        radiation over the 26 year period.  What they found was a drop in
        outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as
        CO2 and methane (CH4) absorb energy. The change in outgoing radiation
        was consistent with theoretical expectations. Thus we have found  direct
        experimental evidence for a significant increase in the Earth’s
        greenhouse effect. This result has been confirmed by subsequent papers
        using data from later satellites.
        When greenhouse gases absorb
        infrared radiation, the energy heats the atmosphere which in turn
        re-radiates infrared radiation in all directions. Some makes its way
        back to the earth’s surface. Hence we expect to find more infrared
        radiation heading downwards. Surface measurements from 1973 to 2008 find
        an increasing trend of infrared radiation returning to earth.”

        read these links
        joannenova.com.au/2010/07/the-unskeptical-guide-to-the-skeptics-handbook/
        http://www.john-daly.com/smoking.htm
        landshape.org/enm/interpretation-bias/
        http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/the_agw_smoking_gun.html
        sites.google.com/site/globalwarmingquestions/ar4ghg
        http://www.climateviews.com/Climate_Views/Download_Articles_files/CookRebuttalb.pdf

        “The planet’s total heat build up can be derived by adding up the heat
        content from the ocean, atmosphere, land and ice. Ocean heat content was
        determined down to 3000 metres dee”

        read the other links I provided. In fact a new paper has just been published, showing the heat is missing
        http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/PLA_21192_proofs_plusFigs1_2.pdf

        • john_parsons

          Adam, The list of evidence I provided is a compilation of statements of facts from NASA, NCDC and NOAA. Only the opening and closing sentences are mine. If you disagree with their findings you should contact them and let them know how they have erred. I’m not being facetious. I often contact all three agencies (and many others) and they are almost uniformly gracious and helpful. I’ve personally contacted Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt, Roy Spencer, Robert Berner, Nicola Scarfetta, Mark Pagani and many, many other world class climatologists. Even with my limited training and often foolish questions they have, almost to a man, taken the time to help me understand the science. It still amazes me. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, they are scientists. Contact them directly Adam, and put your hypotheses forward. 

          On another note. Adam, you know that GHG’s add to the Earth’s radiative budget. You don’t need to search out a mysterious mechanism that cancels out the effect they have, and then search still further for another as yet unknown force that adds that same or similar effect back into the system. Look at David’s post above. Use Occam’s Razor. What is the most reasonable logical conclusion?

          Adam, many who deny the obvious about AGW have a powerful political motive. Namely, they don’t like government. They particularly don’t want to see governments worldwide working together. So it’s vital to them that the source of climate change is something beyond our control, some “natural variation”.

          I ask you honestly Adam, why don’t you want AGW to be true?   JP

          • Jonathan_Duhamel

            Adam provided a good rebuttal to all of what John cites as evidence for CAGW.  But apparently John thinks that because his sources are from the government they must be true.

            • john_parsons

              What a ridiculous statement. I think they are true because they present a mechanism that is cogent, logical and supported by the overwhelming majority of research findings. Unlike “natural variations” which is ad hoc, not a mechanism, not a falsifiable hypothesis and hence not scientific.

              If you think opinion pieces by bloggers are a “good rebuttal”, you can also find “good rebuttals” for evolution.

              Do I give credence to the vast majority of the finest climatologists in the world? Yes I do. JP

              • http://profile.yahoo.com/RB65VXO27HEF7HKJMZDSP7LU4E Adam

                “I think they are true because they present a mechanism that is cogent,
                logical and supported by the overwhelming majority of research findings.”

                900+ peer reviewed papers supporting skeptics arguments against AGW/ACC alarm
                http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html

                Please show that “the overwhelming majority of research findings” support the theory?

                “If you think opinion pieces by bloggers are a “good rebuttal”, you can also find “good rebuttals” for evolution.”

                How about you actually state where I am wrong in my comment.

                • john_parsons

                  Adam, you are wrong in how you judge the validity of an appeal to an authority. We’ve been through this. There’s a right way and a wrong way to use appeals to authority. Review your own reference. The accepted rules of argument and rhetoric clearly recognize a properly formed appeal to authority as a powerful argument. That’s from your own reference, Adam, I don’t know what’s so difficult to grasp about the distinction. JP

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/RB65VXO27HEF7HKJMZDSP7LU4E Adam

            “The list of evidence I provided is a compilation of statements of facts from NASA, NCDC and NOAA.”

            JP that is simply argument from authority. It’s not a valid argument.

            “I’ve personally contacted Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt, Roy Spencer,
            Robert Berner, Nicola Scarfetta, Mark Pagani and many, many other world
            class climatologists.”

            You say you contacted Nicola Scafetta. Out of curiosity, was that before or after I gave you links to his papers.

            “Adam, many who deny the obvious about AGW have a powerful political motive.”

            Complete nonsense. Do all these scientists have political motives
            http://traffic.libsyn.com/rbushway/2010_Senate_Minority_Report.pdf

            What about the president of the world federation of scientists. Is he under the pay of big oil?
            http://www.zenit.org/article-19481?l=english

            “Namely, they don’t like government.”

            Well, honestly who does like the government?

            “I ask you honestly Adam, why don’t you want AGW to be true?”

            I don’t “not want it to be true”. I have looked at the facts and evidence and all of it seems to be against it. It’s got nothing to do with what I want.

            • john_parsons

              Adam, I contacted Dr. Scarfetta after you brought his work to my attention. Thank you.

              How is it that the facts from the work of NASA scientists are an “appeal to authority” but the scientists you reference are not?

              I said “many” not “all”.

              I never mentioned oil in any way. You are seeing things that are not there. Why do you suppose that is?

              Your statement about government is revealing. Who likes government? I do. I like it a lot. It’s what makes civilization possible and I like civilization. It’s what makes freedom possible and I like freedom. In this country the government is the people and I like them too.

              Still checking out the Douglas/Knox paper. Later, JP

              • http://profile.yahoo.com/RB65VXO27HEF7HKJMZDSP7LU4E Adam

                “Adam, I contacted Dr. Scarfetta after you brought his work to my attention. Thank you.”

                I don’t mean to pry too much, but I am interested in what your email exchange with him consisted of. I don’t suppose you could give a brief description could you?

                “How is it that the facts from the work of NASA scientists are an “appeal to authority” but the scientists you reference are not?”

                Because you don’t seem to understand the difference between “claims” and “facts”. You did not present facts in your comment, you provided claims. And those claims were not supported by real world evidence. They contradicted the facts. So therefore repeating claims and claiming that they are “facts” simply because they are from NASA is indeed argumetn from authority. I have never used argument from authority. Each of the papers I provided presented facts supporting what I said.

                “I never mentioned oil in any way. You are seeing things that are not there.”

                You said that people skeptical of AGW had strong political motives. I assumed that you were implying they had connections to the fossil fuel industries. I was simply trying to show your implied claim was baseless. Antonino Zichichi is President of the World Federation of Scientists, and he is one of Italy’s most renowned scientists. He clearly has no political motive, yet he is a skeptic.

                “Your statement about government is revealing. Who likes government? I
                do. I like it a lot. It’s what makes civilization possible and I like
                civilization. It’s what makes freedom possible and I like freedom.”

                I think we’re getting confused between “government” and “the government”. I like “government”. Civilisation can carry on and be held together by government. “The government” is the particular government in power. And a lot of what they do and say, a lot of people disagree with.

                But anyway, it’s not really relevant to this discussion

                • john_parsons

                  Adam, What do you mean by implying my wife’s butt is fat?

                  I purposely left out the citations that accompanied the claims made by NASA, NCDC and NOAA. The comment was just too unwieldy with them and their websites make their references easily available. You’ll have no trouble finding the facts that underpin their claims. If you believe that they have made errors in their research, contact them. Let them know. And then let us all know what you find out.

                  I’ve noticed that many papers you cite from populartechnology,  although peer-reviewed, contain conclusions drawn by the poptech editor(s?) that are NOT the peer-reviewed conclusions. 

                  Okay, so it’s just this particular government you don’t like. I got that.

                  “I assumed you were implying…” How about this, you don’t ‘assume what I’m implying’ and I won’t assume you were implying my wife’s butt is fat.   JP

                  • http://profile.yahoo.com/RB65VXO27HEF7HKJMZDSP7LU4E Adam

                    “I purposely left out the citations that accompanied the claims made by
                    NASA, NCDC and NOAA. The comment was just too unwieldy with them and
                    their websites make their references easily available. You’ll have no
                    trouble finding the facts that underpin their claims.”

                    JP look at the links I provided. Their claims are not supported by real world data.

                    “I’ve noticed that many papers you cite from populartechnology,  although
                    peer-reviewed, contain conclusions drawn by the poptech editor(s?) that
                    are NOT the peer-reviewed conclusions. ”

                    Please give examples?

                    • john_parsons

                      Adam, Let’s pick this thread up below Jon’s last post. More room. JP

        • john_parsons

          Sorry, this is going to be in the wrong order. As usual you have quite a list of material for me to read. The opinion pieces are not particularly interesting to me. The Douglas/Knox paper on the other hand looks worthwhile. I’m going to study it. I’ll be interested in the response from other climatologists. With Douglas being one of the authors, I don’t think we’ll have long to wait for that. JP

    • john_parsons

      Jon, Why so thin-skinned? I’ve seen people call you every name in the book here at one time or another. They’ve called you a “nut” and a “right-wing wacko” and “crazy” among many others. But you never censored them. Why not let your readers see what you found so offensive in my comment? They can judge for themselves. They’re smart enough to make up their own minds.

      You chose the topic: “Climate Deniers are giving us Skeptics a Bad Name”. I believe you are one of those “deniers” and I gave a reasoned explanation for why I believe that’s true. Why not let your readers see that? JP

      • Jonathan_Duhamel

        See Tucson Citizen commenting guidelines, especially item 4.  The management is cracking down.

  • Jonathan_Duhamel

    There is one factor I haven’t seen mentioned yet in the comments, one that would largely negate much of the alleged heat build up from a theoretical greenhouse effect: convective heat transfer. The theoretical still air, clear sky greenhouse effect is one thing, but in the real world convective heat transfer, i.e., weather, seems to be effectively dumping heat into space.

    • anderlan

      So you’re admitting that increased CO2 increases the energy balance?  If somehow a magical faster new mechanism were to appear that sinked the heat faster than before–with no negative consequences like extreme wind or something or other (I don’t really know, because you haven’t explained the magic yet), and with negligible heat going through our air and sea and ice, increasing temps, changing weather, and melting ice sheets–that would be wonderful.  But the increasing air temps, sea temps, and declining ice sheets would seem to say that any new heatsink mechanism was not going to magically take over and reverse all the consequences of heat budget increase.  

      It’s nearly impossible that any new mechanism could completely balance the budget, only partially. If you want to continue dreaming, go ahead. Tell me when your head finds something that can be described while not dreaming and is observable.

      • john_parsons

        Anderlan, Excellant point. Where has this magical governing mechanism been for the last 50 years? JP

    • john_parsons

      Jon, The Earth’s atmosphere is layered. One of these layers is the Convective Boundary Layer. It is the layer at which upward convection ceases and convection trends toward the poles. The transfer of heat to space is radiative, not convective. Weather does not “dump” heat into space. 

      The portion of the Earth’s radiative budget that is returned to space is precisely measured (by your tax dollars) and is not only consistent with the greenhouse effect but is one of the many multiple lines of evidence for AGW. 

      The implication that climatologists have overlooked convection is preposterous on the one hand and highly revealing on the other.   JP

    • john_parsons

      Adam, I’ll do better than that. Give me three random numbers between 1 and 900. JP

      • john_parsons

        Adam, Doing a little research on your PopTech link. Four out of the first five papers I chose were behind pay walls. Any help? At this rate it’ll take ~$12,000 to check them out. Must have been expensive for the PopTech editor. What was his name? JP

    • john_parsons

      Adam, Why won’t you inform NASA, NOAA and the NCDC of the errors in their data? Show them what you believe to be their mistakes and see what their response is. Your complaint is not that I misrepresented what they have said. Your complaint is that they are wrong. So talk to them. You’re a serious person. Listen to their explanation. Who knows, maybe you’ll even change your mind.

      Let me give you some advice from my experience questioning these agencies. Organize your material into particular areas of expertise. The agency will tell you who a good contact person will be for each category. Or if you can, address the researcher who’s work is in question. Take the most pertinent issue from each category and formulate your critique as a very concise question. Present one issue at a time for each category. I assure you, they will address your issue. When they learn you are truly interested only in the facts, there will be opportunities for followup. Once again, for emphasis: Make it concise and to the point.

      Let us know what you find out. JP

  • CascaRufio

    Those that believe excessive carbon emissions are contributing to global warming should write their state and federal representatives demanding preventive measures for the massive forest and brush fires we have annually.  I do not understand who is profiting from allowing these fires, but cannot think of any reason other than someone is profiting.  Maintaining firebreaks and clearance on the sides of roads so that fire fighting teams have lines to effectively fight and contain these fires would seem to be much more cost effective than dealing with the out of control fires and damages caused without them.  Compare the carbon emissions from the wild fires last year to that from fuels being purposely burned.  The fact that these have occurred naturally throughout history, does not justify not doing something about them now.  This is something that can be done right now.  It will create meaningful, productive jobs maintaining these clearings that will also improve our environment.   All of the other things we can do to stop the waste can be worked on, and will take time.  This can be done quickly, but only if people make some noise about it.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/RB65VXO27HEF7HKJMZDSP7LU4E Adam

    John Parsons might I remind you that I defended you on CCD because I thought that you were a civil and polite person. From your above comment it seems that I was wrong about you. What gives you the right to call anyone who disagrees with you a “denier” or “denialist”. Would you consider me a denialist? Even after I defended you. From reading his comments Jonathan Duhamel has been very civil towards you when commenting on this website. Yet in your above comment you insult him and accuse him of being in denial. Why should he let you comment on his website when you talk like that to him.

    “The overwhelming evidence for human caused global climate change shows that we know a lot.”

    Might I remind you that I gave you a list of over 900 peer reviewed papers (and the working list is nearly 1000) refuting CAGW and its related claims. Yet from your comment above it appears you have completely ignored the science I presented you, and simply repeat the same warmist arguments about “denial” and “consensus”.

    JP I’m not usually wrong about people, but it does seem I was wrong about you. I had thought that you were open minded and polite yet your comment above has thoroughly disproved that.

  • john_parsons

    Adam, I consider you to be a true skeptic. You are not a denialist. Please note the topic of this thread; “Climate Denialists are giving us Skeptics a Bad Name”. I hope people follow your comments. They can then see the difference between a true skeptic and a denialist. JP

  • john_parsons

    Adam, if you doubt that denial exists as a significant aspect of human behavior, or that I have misrepresented the nature of this behavior in relation to AGW; might I suggest checking the following references:

    ‘Consciousness’ by Susan Blackmore 2010

    ‘Incognito- The Secret Life of the Brain’ by David M. Eagleman 2011

    ‘How the Mind Works’ by Steven Pinker 1997

    As I stated in the second paragraph of my comment, I was presenting a hypothesis, not name-calling. Denial, a physiological state, exists. It’s a scientific fact.

    I bring your attention to a quote from Heartland’s Dr. Singer. One from the very article Jon referenced:   “I have concluded that we can accomplish very little with convinced warmistas and probably even less with true deniers.”    JP