Comments on: Proposed Jaguar habitat in Arizona and New Mexico is scientifically and legally indefensible

By: Ricardo Small

Ricardo Small — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:22:00 +0000

Thanks, J.D., for sending the email below to me. Did anyone else receive the same?

Ricardo, Please read the Tucson Citizen commenting guidelines here: http://tucsoncitizen.com/commenting-guidelines/.Follow them in any future comments or those comments will be deleted. Jonathan

By: MadMagyar

MadMagyar — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:21:00 +0000

1, I LIVE in “wild country”, not some smog-choked city. I hear coyote, elk and other wild animals every night
2. I left the mountain lion family that lived near a ranch where I stayed several years ago alone – and they left me alone. Ever had one 10 feet from you, in the dark, on a rock ledge above you? Thought not. I have, and she let me live. THAT will teach you more about having some respect for large wild cats than reading about them in a book.
3. Apparently you’ve never heard of Agenda 21. Try reading about it. It’s not a conspiracy “theory” when it’s a conspiracy FACT. The UN, like any other so-called “government”, is all about control, just the opposite of the natural world. Start here: http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/
4. When people finally wake up, they will learn that this planet can handle anything we think we can do to it, and much more. If we ever learn to just leave nature alone and quit trying to control it, or stuff it in a box, or a cage, then we’ll get along with it just fine.
5. Cats, especially big ones, don’t care what humans want.
6. Nazis were real, too, in case you haven’t heard. And they didn’t just “go away”. Ever heard of Stormfront? As insane, belligerent and violent as they are, the kids on that forum are a joke compared to the real ones. Pray you never meet one.
Guess you didn’t catch the sarcasm in the allusion.

By: Ricardo Small

Ricardo Small — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:46:00 +0000

Ah, yes. Now we have the truth about the objective of protecting an endangered species. It is a Nazi plot, a UN conspiracy. Oh woe is me! How could I have been so wrong as to not the see this?

MadMagyar, whoever you really are behind your anonymous handle, I suggest you extract your head from where the sun don’t shine and examine some facts.

First, jaguar dominate mountain lion, much like wolves dominate coyotes, and there is no plan to kill off mountain lion. Hence the name Center for Biological Diversity, emphasis on “diversity”. Second, the densely forested areas down south that you mention are disappearing fast, and large portions of Arizona and New Mexico are also densely forested. You should get out and see the Southwest’s wild country some time. It is beautiful! Third, using “nazi” and suggesting that there is a UN plot characterizes you as a kook. Fourth, the USFWS did not initially propose anything for jaguar, because that agency regularly caves in to political pressure from resource abuse folks, like ranchers and miners. The Service was forced to comply with law by court orders.

By: MadMagyar

MadMagyar — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:50:00 +0000

If a black panther can live around Kanab, Utah (mid 90′s) and in the Pine/Strawberry area (2001) without “protected areas” and amongst the very viable mountain lion population, which survives without our help all across the West, then so can jaguars. The family of lions living around an old homestead ranch I lived on outside Sedona had plenty to eat. If jaguars wanted to travel that far north, they’d find the lions, not humans, their only competition. That jaguars do not wander this far north anymore, if they ever did, is probably due more to their preference for more tropical and densely forested areas that matches their coloring pattern. But the hippie lawyers and environmental Nazis of the so-called Center for “Biological Diversity” don’t care to pay attention to such obvious details. This begs the question: in addition to excluding humans from proposed “protected” areas, do these ecology Nazis also plan to kill off the existing mountain lion population to give the jaguars more “lebensraum”? Or is their true purpose in demanding more area than proposed by the FWS really a furthering of the misanthropic UN Agenda 21?

By: Ricardo Small

Ricardo Small — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:56:00 +0000

What link is that? Provided where? Have you read the material I provided links to, J.D.? Probably not, since you persist in your mistaken position about jaguar habitat.

By: Jonathan_Duhamel

Jonathan_Duhamel — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:47:00 +0000

Ricardo, if had clicked the link provided, it would bring you to a webpage. The first link there “Comments” show that Dennis Parker is an attorney and biologist. Your question shows that you have not read the material.

By: Ricardo Small

Ricardo Small — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:30:00 +0000

I’ve thought a great deal about grazing on public land, about mining on public land, about jaguar habitat, Ms. Coping. I’ve read a great deal about these subjects, too. See the few book references I’ve listed in my recent posts at this site. BTW, there is no reference in J.D.’s list to anything by a Mr. Parker. Who does or did Mr. Parker work for? Where can I find what he wrote about “everything I mentioned – and a whole lot more”? What’s his first name? Does Parker’s writing refute Steve Gallizioli’s conclusions? Have you read Steve Gallizioli’s articles? How about David Brown’s book, Borderland Jaguars? Welfare Ranching? Read those and think about their contents, then let’s talk again soon.

By: Ricardo Small

Ricardo Small — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 03:19:00 +0000

Thanks, Uncle Karl. I appreciate your advice. I will not waste my time arguing anymore with J.D., the closed minded Randian. As you apparently learned here, many adherents to the Rand philosophy take on a zealotry that is impermeable to reason and is insensitive to consequences, other than the bottom line of profitability. Worshiping the dollar, as Randians do, is a shallow existence. I would rather see a jaguar, a wolf, a mountain lion or a bear than a herd of cows or a flock of sheep.

By: Your_Uncle_Karl

Your_Uncle_Karl — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 00:16:00 +0000

I feel obligated to pass on to you, Mr. Small, the same wisdom that I have passed on to others that beat their heads against the brick wall that is Wry Heat. That is, you can provide all the evidence for your argument that you care to…and it won’t make a wit of difference. No data; no facts will convince him to see your POV. Mr. Duhamel’s driving philosophy is Randian in orientation and his real interest is not the welfare of environment, but rather the welfare of capital. His interest in the environment extends only so far as doing what he can to make sure that the exploitation of natural resources for profit is never impeded.

By: Cindy Coping

Cindy Coping — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 00:02:00 +0000

Ricardo, obviously you have not read, much less thought about any of the arguments or the supporting materials linked in Jonathan’s article. Mr. Parker, a professional wildlife biologist with decades of field experience, examined everything you mentioned -and a whole lot more. How then, can you justify your claim that his work is biased?