Rep. Sinema responds to Rep. Allen’s SB 1070 letter
by tcguestblogger on May. 06, 2010, under PoliticsSB 1070: The Real Facts
Rep. Kyrsten Sinema
To whom it may concern:
Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake (District 5), sent an e-mail with the subject line “I want to explain SB 1070,” but unfortunately, she failed to explain any real facts about the new law.
Instead, she sent an e-mail littered with statistics without citations that unfortunately led readers to more fear and desperation. Spreading unchecked facts is not the job of a state lawmaker who was elected to lead. It’s unfortunate that Sen. Allen chose to do so, but Arizonans aren’t new to her behavior — she said last year in a committee hearing that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
Sen. Allen failed to explain anything about SB 1070 because it doesn’t solve any of the problems she listed in her e-mail, namely crime and violence along the border. I’m happy to quickly discuss the facts about the new law.
SB 1070 fails to solve Arizona’s real immigration problems — crime and violence along the border and in our neighborhoods. Republicans’ patchwork policies consistently have failed to crack down on the violence and criminal acts that can accompany illegal immigration.
And for multiple reasons, the new law is unconstitutional:
The new law is an unfunded mandate and gives police no resources or funding to implement the new law. Gov. Jan Brewer and Republicans took police officers off the streets when they massively cut public safety funding in their budget this year. Next year, their budget will eliminate the state Department of Juvenile Corrections, leaving thousands of juvenile offenders in the hands of city budgets that have no resources to allocate to the problem.
On top of no funding for police, law enforcement can be sued if they don’t enforce the law and no doubt will be sued if they do. The law actually ties the hands of police officers instead of enabling them to protect our communities.
The law was changed to reflect that police, when deciding who to question about their immigration status, may not use race, ethnicity or national origin as a factor, and that’s good. But that change, created by House Bill 2162, only removed race from the law and did not replace it with what police can use in deciding who to question about their immigration status. It gives police no guidance and leaves a question for officers in how to determine who to question about their immigration status.
Sen. Allen was right about one thing in her e-mail — the federal government has failed to act to stop Arizona’s immigration problems. We need tough immigration reform that cracks down on human smugglers, the illegal sale of weapons to drug cartels and other violent criminals, and we need to give law enforcement the tools they need to secure our borders. Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the nation and we should do everything we can to make sure law enforcement can do their job and protect our kids and neighborhoods. I support making sure law enforcement has the tools they need to go after violent criminals. I support making sure those who are here legally are treated fairly and respectfully.
Our immigration system is broken and Washington has been unable or unwilling to solve it. This is an issue that also requires leadership and action at the federal level or it will simply get worse. Border security and immigration need to be acted on by Congress, so that states and cities are not forced to act and bear the entire expense of enforcing our immigration laws.
Arizona’s economy cannot handle the expense of a law that does not provide a real solution to the problem. We need to focus on laws that actually do something to combat the violence near our border and in our neighborhoods.
For example, my bill, House Bill 2763, substituted by Senate Bill 1059, cracks down on human smuggling. It eliminates a requirement to prove that a trafficked individual be obtained “for transport” to qualify as being trafficked for sex or labor. The bill gives police more tools to arrest criminals who traffic people for sex or slave labor.
We need a uniform system that secures our borders, requires those who are here to become legal, and puts in place a policy going forward to deal with the root causes of illegal immigration.
It’s time to get to work and deal with the real immigration problems in Arizona.
SB 1070 fails to do any of that.
Sincerely,
Assistant House Democratic Leader Rep. Kyrsten Sinema
May 6th, 2010 on 2:49 pm
Is the US CODE UNCONSTITUTIONAL?
US CODE TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1325
§ 1325. Improper entry by alien
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324a
§ 1324a. Unlawful employment of aliens
WE DO NOT NEED IMMIGRATION REFORM. WE NEED IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.
ENFORCE THE LAW
We should treat immigrants like Mexico does:
At present, Article 67 of Mexico’s Population Law says, “Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal … are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues.”
That would simplify things.
Operation Wetback was a 1954 operation by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to remove about one million illegal immigrants from the southwestern United States, focusing on Mexican nationals.
Simple question:
What happens if someone jumps the fence and wanders around a gated community without an ID and a resident of the community calls the cops saying someone that doesn’t look like they belong here is roaming the streets? The cops arrive. They would ask the wanderer a few questions. If wanderer does not have a valid reason for being inside the gated community, the cops would escort them out, wouldn’t they? Isn’t a country, like the USA, a “gated community”, too?
May 7th, 2010 on 7:56 am
Look all those letters and numbers, it seems like you are a really smart persons who knows the law. Wow! Citing history, even numbers on apprehensions, I’m really amused for the way you handle it. However, what I see it’s a person who is a coward and a snitch. You whine a lot, like a child, blaming those undocumented persons for everything negative in your rented land. Stop the lamentation for this political transvestism and stop buying cheap goods at walmart, that’s the reason why we need cheap labor, so you can buy goods for pennies. Stop smoking pot, that will prevent ALL the mexicans cartel from invading our country. Idiot..! get the complete picture and than you can exercise your liberty to talk lunacy.
May 7th, 2010 on 11:00 am
Paul, any authority not expressly granted to the federal governmant is reserved to the states and the people. This being the case, Arizona should be free to carry out immigration enforcement measures to whatever extent is required to ensure the safety of its citizens.
I’m fairly certain that the ranchers, whose property is being invaded and defiled and whose lives are being threatened, by the stream of immigrants pouring through their property, probably aren’t smoking the dope thats being cattled in.
Let’s just look at it logistically. The amount of reasources required to stop the distribution, purchase, and consumption of narcotics within the states would by many hundereds of times exceed the amount of resources needed to close the borders to illegals. After all, the border is a few thousand lineal miles but the land mass of the U.S. is millions of square miles. The money that is spent by the state(funded by its legal residents) and by hospitals, on illegals, is enough to close down the borders and save taxpayers millions of dollars.
May 8th, 2010 on 12:26 am
no one would detain them because they are their to complete the building of the homes for the rich white guys in the ‘gated community” Hypocrisy should be detained first. Easier to get to heaven that way.
May 8th, 2010 on 3:31 pm
That’s a pretty pathetic reach based upon nothing but your prejudices.
May 6th, 2010 on 3:35 pm
You are full of it. 1070 is long over due,We have heard enough from people like you, who in fact do nothing and will not do anything in the future.I was a Democrat but that has changed because for some reason Democratic politicians are spineless when it comes to illegals,I know why ,you want their votes,shame on you. Gonernor Brewer has done something so get on the bandwagon if you want to saty in office or all Democrats are on their way out. This is not a party problem ,it is an American problem .Open your eyes 95% of legal Arizonan residents are quite happy with this new bill
May 6th, 2010 on 3:57 pm
therumpledone-
Thank you… Thank you… Thank you
May 6th, 2010 on 3:59 pm
arizona jim –
and you too
May 6th, 2010 on 4:02 pm
ARIZONA IS NOT TO BLAME? WASHINGTON CAUSED THIS MESS.
How about opponents of any illegal immigration, boycott states or other entities including baseball that ostracizes Arizona?
Every anti-illegal immigrant organization in the United States and the majority of the pro-sovereignty population will fight Amnesty. Washington and pro-amnesty politicians over several decades of both parties, have brought this illegal alien invasion mess upon themselves and its people? They even went as far as cutting budgets instead of building the–REAL–double fence? Many Americans may shun away from being called a racist. American and legal residents don’t demonstrate because they are liable to be attacked by illegal alien extremists. As Politically correct” laws have become a major encumbrance to our safety. The same with using ” Racial profiling” by the open border zealots, that is compromising any safety net we have in any state, the border or airport terminals Being a tea party activist, a moderate Conservative (neither a Democrat or Republican) and a long time member of NumbersUSA organization, I totally agree with the party in battling any form of Amnesty or any path to citizenship for people who violated our laws.
Arizona–as a border state has a crippled economy from financial supporting illegal immigrant welfare, plus its cities police are unable to handle the criminal incursions from across the border. This soft Obama administration is going to cause a massive calamity through its Liberal ideology? Somewhere on our soil is a cell of people who hate our guts, whether foreign terrorists or home-grown terrorists and they will succeed in killing innocent citizens-legal residents. It is already known that Cartels in Mexico are assisting these criminals from the Middle East. Somewhere soon homeland Security intelligence will fail to pick up criminal activities and death like 9/11 will happen in this nation. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars on foreign countries, but our lawmakers argue over appropriating several billion dollars, on building the real double fence or stationing the National Guard permanently on the border as Mexico does with Guatemala? How about bringing our troops home from other countries and demand they invest in their own military to protect their own people?
May 18th, 2010 on 11:27 pm
I wish we could get our politians to listen to your views…They are the true feelings of 99% of Americans!!!Just look in your local small town(100,00 or less) newspapers that take polls on this issue.Everyone wants the borders secured.Check anyone’s paperwork to insure they’re here legally.Anyones!It’s not just Arizona being over run with the free care these people expect but all of the States.We have got to vote these liberals out before it’s too late.
May 6th, 2010 on 5:47 pm
I am a legal alien. Since I got my green card, I know I must have it with me all the time. I will gladly show it to a police officer, moreover if, because of my accent, he is in doubt of my legal status. Still I feel like I have been granted the same civil rights as any citizen of the United States, in Arizona and every state where I have been, and I have been in couple.
May 8th, 2010 on 3:37 pm
Good for you. I was with a woman for five years who was from Russia. She tried for six years filling out paperwork, and spending money to get permission to come to the USA. She had three months left of medical school when her papers came through and she had to drop everything to get here. She had to promise to keep a job, not apply for any sort of government assistance while she was not a citizen, wasn’t eligible for any sort of aid for education expenses, etc. It infuriated her when people felt that just because they managed to sneak across the border, they should be afforded not only the same rights as she had, but wanted even more rights. Accepting illegal aliens is diminishing to those who come here legally.
If someone robs a bank and the suspect is a white male in his 40′s with dark hair and over 6′ tall, I’m not going to raise a fuss if the cops stop me for questioning because I happen to fit that target demographic. Likewise, since a preponderance of people here illegally are Hispanic it is ludicrous for them to claim racial profiling when they fit the demographic of over 90% of those sneaking in. It’s a pain, but it’s also a fact of life. If the illegals were stopped and the Hispanic community helped stop the problem rather than advocating for it, the additional scrutiny would stop. Pretty obvious.
May 18th, 2010 on 12:10 pm
Welcome, Le Observatore. You and others like you make this country great. Thank you for decision to come here.
May 6th, 2010 on 6:09 pm
I am glad that she supports SB 1070. AND she is hot too.
May 7th, 2010 on 7:18 am
I didn’t understand a word of what she was saying, something about being re-elected or something but yes, she is hot. chung 16
May 7th, 2010 on 7:39 am
Do either of you even realize what kind of mindset you are revealing with these comments about Rep. Sinema’s appearance in such an inappropriate context? You diminish yourselves as well as her with comments like these.
May 18th, 2010 on 11:53 pm
Are you unable to read? She is NOT for SB 1070, or were you educated in Arizona? I live in AZ and everyone of you who supports SB 1070 is an embarrassment to this entire country. Your statistics are pulled out of your astroids and your racism shines right through.
Do any of you even understand the Constitution, or it also beyond your reading comprehension skills?
May 27th, 2010 on 7:58 am
Have you even bothered to read SB 1070 or did you just jump on the liberal band wagon with your eyes closed? It fully respects and supports the Constitution and is simply trying to enforce the laws that are already on the books and being ignored by the Feds.
May 6th, 2010 on 7:40 pm
Typical tolerant, compassionate lefty; ridiculing someone for their sincerely held religious beliefs. And since Krysten is so brilliant and knows exactly how old the Earth is, she apparently feels that gives her permssion to proclaim her intellectual and moral superiority.
Krysten is the typical politician, more concerned with her own political future than te safety and quality of life of her constituents. Could Krysten be opposing this bill in a thiny veiled attempt to suck up to the Hispanic vote, which is about the only chance for her and her ilk to remain in power after November?
This law may not be perfect, but it is a start. My take on what needs to be done: Build the wall, severely penalize businesses that hire illegals, and no more freebies of any kind. By that I mean: no free health care, no free education, no welfare, no American citizenship to babies that get dropped after a walk across the border, etc. etc.
Once the freebies end, the illegal invaders will leave on their own volition and spare us the time and expense for apprehension and eviction. However, they had better have their papers in order when they hit the Mexican border, or face the resulting dire consequences of how the Mexican Government deals with illegal border crossers.
Regards, Canyonman
May 6th, 2010 on 9:55 pm
And since Krysten is so brilliant and knows exactly how old the Earth is,
BTW – It’s Rep. Sinema to you and it’s not that that she’s especially brilliant for knowing how old the earth is. More that Sen. Allen shows her ignorance for not knowing. And yes, when religious beliefs, sincere or not, lead you to believe something as patently stupid and easily proven wrong as the age of the planet, one has to wonder what other subjects you are ignorant about and about your credibility as a lawmaker.
May 6th, 2010 on 10:42 pm
Well, leftfield, I’m sure Krysten appreciates you deciding what name someone is allowed to call her. It’s funny that you would do the exact same thing as you accuse others of doing.
There are many people who have above average knowledge in one area and ignorance in another. There are many people who made great discoveries, breakthroughs in science and medicine and all other fields, yet thought Black people were inferior or hated Jewish people, supported Hitler, etc.
Senator Allen may not know how old the Earth is, but the liberals don’t know what the answer to the illegal immigration is, so what does that tell you? The Federal government refuses to do its job and then complains when AZ tries to do something to enable a huge problem to be solved.
Illegal workers have one advantage and that is their willingness to be exploited. They are willing to do crappy jobs for low wages with no benefits, tolerate bad working conditions and unfair treatment because of their status as illegals. A worker program is a joke. If you require they be paid a prevailing wage and good working conditions and treat them as a citizen would, then you have removed their advantage. If someone is going to hire a worker and has to pay and treat them equally, do you think they are going to hire someone who can’t speak a word of English and can melt back into Mexico to avoid being sued or to escape criminal prosecution? Saying the economy needs these workers is incorrect. You’re saying the economy needs these workers who are willing to be exploited. When you say costs wold skyrocket if the illegal worker population was not here, you’re using the exact same arguments that the South used to try and justify the continuation of slavery. What does that say about you?
I don’t hate the Mexican people. I’m all for legal immigration. But, to say that just because you managed to sneak across the border without being caught entitles you to be left alone, given services, education and health care is just wrong and you either know that or are just stupid.
May 7th, 2010 on 7:15 am
You’ll need to reread my comment again. Afterwards, you might ask yourself where in the comment I mentioned the exploitation of migrants or the importance of migrant labor to the American economy.
Senator Allen’s willfull ignorance of the planet’s age goes way beyond a simple factual error. It speaks to an entirely perverted world view.
May 7th, 2010 on 7:24 am
“Senator Allen’s willfull ignorance of the planet’s age goes way beyond a simple factual error. It speaks to an entirely perverted world view.”
Like the Marine cores? Or the corpseman? From the President himself Lefty and from your mouth as well. It speaks to an entirely perverted world view.
convinced swarms I.T.C.
May 7th, 2010 on 7:34 am
Like the Marine cores? Or the corpseman? From the President himself Lefty and from your mouth as well. It speaks to an entirely perverted world view.
Andrew, this makes no sense. Are you asking me if the USMC has a perverted world view in my opinion? Who is the corpseman? Are you saying that the President and I share the same world view? What?
May 8th, 2010 on 1:02 am
Wow! Leftfield, you really ARE an idiot!
Regarding my previous comment after yours. Initially I addressed your temerity in feeling you have any right to control how someone is addressed. Then, I addressed your implication that if someone is wrong in one area, then everything else is suspect as well. If that were the case, then a safe assumption would be you have no useful knowledge about anything.
Then, I segued to a couple of the main arguments that people try and use to ignore illegal entry to our country. If you don’t know what segue means, look it up.
It’s not all about you. I can point out stupidity on your part as well as make another point. Although I’m sure you have delusions that you’re in control of that as well as methods of address.
As to your laughable response directly above me to andrew, are you really that ignorant? He was making reference to President Obama’s verbal gaffes in incorrectly pronouncing words and phrases when separated from his teleprompter. I won’t try and explain it all to you as I don’t believe you really have the intellectual capacity to understand anyway.
May 9th, 2010 on 9:07 am
I guess I missed the connection because I don’t watch TV. Surely, this has also hampered my intellectual capacity.
May 10th, 2010 on 1:50 am
Obviously.
May 13th, 2010 on 4:36 pm
Leftfield,
The Earth IS only around 6,000 years old. You must be an evolutionist who follows the line of scientists who can’t agree on a “millions of years” scheme. Every evolutionary scientist has his or her own number on the age of the earth and the universe. The Earth is only as old as history itself, which started with Adam & Eve. If you want to think of yourself as having evolved from a pool of sludge to a monkey to what we are today that took bazillions of years to grow hands and eyes and teeth and legs, you go right ahead and amuse yourself. God tells us that creation itself speaks of His glory and you will be judged for what you know about it and Him. Unfortunately, ignorance will not be an authorized excuse.
As for the immigration bill, it should have said that all males crossing the border will be shot on site and all females and children will be sent back to Mexico. Only legal citizens have rights in this country. If they want to come here thru legal channels, more power to them. The depressing part of this whole issue is that too many people don’t seem to know the definition of ILLEGAL, especially government. As an example, it’s legal to kill unborn babies, but it’s illegal to kill a grown person. What kind of logic is that? Both are human lives. It should be illegal to kill either one, except in self-defense. It is ILLEGAL to cross our borders without proper documentation, it should be perfectly legal to stop any Mexican on the street and ask for his or her documentation. As stated by another commentator, 90% of illegals are Mexican (Hispanic), just as 99% of terrorists are Muslim. We SHOULD be racial profiling!! If they are the majority who commit the crimes, they should be the ones we are looking for! Let’s use our brains, people. Logic and reason are wonderful companions.
May 13th, 2010 on 5:02 pm
> The Earth is only as old as history itself, which started with Adam & Eve.
Another Republican candidate for Governor of Alabama ?
May 18th, 2010 on 11:32 pm
AMEN!!!!
May 6th, 2010 on 7:54 pm
The federal government has failed us, so you tell me what we are supposed to do? Barry Obama has already said that Congress doesn’t have the capacity now to deal with this issue, so basically we’re on our own. Don’t we have the right to defend ourselves as a state? When I lived out of the country for 2 years in venezuela I had to carry my passport with me at ALL TIMES. I was pulled off buses because I was white and questioned. Were they racist? I certainly wasn’t offended. I was in their country as a Visitor. By I guess in your opinion we should worry more about hurting peoples feelings, then we should about protecting our citizens. We don’t have the man power to protect the border, which is our federal governement’s job, so our only defense is to make our state laws unkind towards illegals. ILLEGALS!
May 6th, 2010 on 8:05 pm
Look at California - Americans who wanted to wear the American flag on May 5th were sent home because “some Hispanic students would get upset”. See: http://cbs5.com/education/american.flag.shirts.2.1677973.htmlThis is nonsense! Every day of the week, this is our country!! Remember, we have the BILL OF RIGHTS! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!! Wearing the flag is actually patriotic – I don’t care what flippin’ day it is. If we keep this up (ie, giving Illegals rights when they don’t even bother to learn our language and culture), then expect your rights as an American to diminish! If that were my kid sent home, I’d definitely sue Morgan Hill HS.The MAIN issue here is that the Illegals want FREE services designed for Americans. Illegals don’t want to learn our language and culture. They want America and its benefits absolutely free, and if we say something, we are bigoted.My parents’ parents came here from Europe, and they legalized themselves and learned English. Why can’t the Illegals do the same?Simply because they don’t want to pay taxes. When I did insurance auditing throughout TN, I did many, many audits with Illegals who owned their own businesses. (By the way, they didn’t have a business license, yet they got insured by insurance companies. Go figure!) These Illegals refused to speak English (until I spoke Spanish w/ them), and very few like 1% had ITINS through the Treasury Dept to pay taxes. 99% of the Illegals did not want to pay taxes, YET they want to enjoy the benefits of being an “American”.Too bad we can’t attach tax evasion to the same bill.If us Americans marched in Mexico City as they are in downtown Phoenix, do you really think Mexico would allow the same rights and benefits? I sincerely doubt so.Why is Sharpton here? He should be angry that Illegals are taking away jobs and opportunities from his own people! This is not an issue of bigotry. This is an immigration issue.As far as Shakira (a Latina pop star) being here, she “condemns” the law because it “promotes discrimination and robs Latinos of human dignity.” See: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/29/20100429shakira-condemns-arizona-immigration-law29-ON.htmlWhat about my dignity? I am tax-paying American and can show my legality as a citizen. It is quite unfair that I have to pay for an Illegal’s healthcare and education when the Illegal doesn’t even bother learning our language, and pay taxes. The more we pay for Illegals, the less we have for us tax-paying Americans. We may be the “Land of the Free”, but freedom still comes at a price, and that price is called taxation.I dare an Illegal to answer me back on this issue. I support our Governor signing this bill, and I truly hope our politicians do not succumb to the pressure.
May 6th, 2010 on 8:06 pm
She is for illegal immigration for their votes? nice one considering they can’t vote.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:04 am
Well, they aren’t supposed to vote. Why are our ballots in Spanish and English? You have to be a citizen to vote, and to become a citizen you have to prove proficiency in English. If you know English well enough to pass the citizenship test, you should know it well enough to read a ballot. We should not balkanize our country by printing our ballots in anything other than English. I wonder how many ballots in Mexico are printed in English?
May 9th, 2010 on 9:10 am
Why are our ballots in Spanish and English?
“Only a handful of Germans in the Reich had the slightest conception of the eternal and merciless struggle for the German language, German schools, and a German way of life”.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
May 9th, 2010 on 4:40 pm
How DARE YOU compare what is happening today to the time of the holocaust! You ignorant fool! You’re spewing ridiculous sensationalism that gets this discussion nowhere. Pull your arrogant head out of your hippie backside and get a clue. SHAME ON YOU!
May 9th, 2010 on 8:21 pm
No, shame on you, my friend. This is the way it starts and that’s why I dare.
May 10th, 2010 on 1:54 am
It’s about assimilation over balkanization. If you have to be a citizen to vote, and to become a citizen you have to prove a proficiency in English, then you would be able to read the ballot in English. If you can’t, then there is probably a reason and you shouldn’t be voting.
It’s interesting how the left is always trying to demonize and link the right with calling people Nazi’s or invoking Hitler and yet it is the left the does it the most.
Yes, leftfield and those like him should be ashamed of themselves, but once you decide that your country isn’t sovereign and that anyone who wants to waltz into the country can do so without fear of recrimination, there probably isn’t a whole lot that can make someone like that feel ashamed.
May 6th, 2010 on 8:11 pm
if getting legalized was that easy im sure they would all do it. Im sure they just love making less than minimum wage to support their family. oh and what about the millions that social security makes on illegals?
May 6th, 2010 on 8:20 pm
And for multiple reasons, the new law is unconstitutional:
It attempts to make a state crime out of being in the country unlawfully, a theory already struck down in court.
It encourages racial profiling.
It clashes with the constitutional authority of the federal government over immigration.
This is a blatant lie and you know it. The court has upheld the States rights in these matters. Check the 9th circuit court of appeals. The Supreme court would not hear the case on employer sanctions, the 9th’s ruling stands, which says Arizona has the right to make this law. LIAR
It is the strongest law in the country prohibiting racial profiling. LIAR
Nothing in the bill takes the authority of the Federal governemnt. Nothing. LIAR
You should know better Krysten, those “unchecked facts” were presented in Senate Testimony. LIAR
Again, liberal racism loves to use the economy and the cost of the law to enable the criminal enslavement of brown people, it was your party that tried to block the 14th Amendment and the equal protection clause. Your party loves racial set-aside, racist , Jim Crow laws. No more racial set asides. The Southern Democrats kept slavery in this country for 100 years longer than necessary because your party claimed it would ruin the economy. Maybe you didn’t get that in history class. Were you too busy sucking up to La Raza money to acknowledge it?
Your party keeps the brown person and all people of color in perpetual ignorance so you can grow huge over reaching social welfare programs and use their undervalued labor as bargaining chips in your political ambitions. Your behavior is abhorrent and racist.
I’ve already shown you are a liar about SB 1070.
May 6th, 2010 on 9:57 pm
You should know better Krysten…
Again, it is Rep. Sinema to you, Jimmy.
May 6th, 2010 on 10:21 pm
Your behavior is abhorrent and racist.
Funny, I was just going to say the same thing about you. Because what is really behind all your phony concern about the immigrant and La Raza studies is not how ‘brown people’ might be effected without SB 1070 or how they might be damaged by ethnic studies programs. Rather it is your deep seated fears about the white race losing cultural, economic and political dominance in the future. You look around and you see a black man in the White House, gay people out of the closet living openly and women in positions of power and you see white dominance and privilege becoming a footnote of history in your ‘own country’.
I don’t think you would mind sharing a lunch counter or a classroom with anyone, so long as the lunchroom was serving your slice of meat and your version of history was being taught in the classroom. That, my friend, is where the racism of the system is entrenched and that is where you get very uncomfortable.
Another thing, Mr. Goebells, all the former Southern Democrats are now Republicans. This a result of the Republican “Southern Strategy”; a successful plan to play to white racism, nationalism and religious intolerance in order to attract votes to a party whose only interests are the interests of the white and the rich.
It is true-Republicans hate Latinos.
May 6th, 2010 on 10:56 pm
OMG, leftfield! You are truly an idiot! First you have no right to tell anyone how they can or cannot address Krysten! How arrogant of you!
I could care less what color a persons skin is or what position they hold. My opposition to Barack Obama has nothing to do with his skin color and everything to do with his policies.
I don’t care if the person sitting next to me at the lunch counter is white, black, yellow, brown, or whatever! I don’t care what color an illegal alien is either! If they’re brown, black, white, yellow, purple, whatever. They are here illegally and should not receive anything reserved for citizens and they should be sent home.
I don’t care gay people live with each other or go out in public. I don’t like excessive PDA’s regardless of sexuality, but otherwise, who cares? I don’t care if a woman is in a position of power as long as she is there because she can do a good job. If legal immigration ends up with white people, like me, not being in the majority any longer, that’s the way it goes and I don’t care.
Even if the states that used to represented by Democrats are now Republican, what does that have to do with anything? It’s still a historical fact that the Democrats were the majority of those who opposed ending slavery and opposed the Civil Rights bill. Lyndon Johnson even made a point at the signing of the bill that it would not have been possible without the support of the Republicans. Al Gore’s father was one of those who tried to water down the law and block it!
As final proof of your idiocy, you make an ignorant, blanket statement, “It’s true- Republicans hate Latinos.” What a moron. I’m sure some do. I know some Democrats that hate Latinos, Jews, Blacks, Asians, etc. Do you really think no Republicans own any Shakira albums? Or watched JLo’s movies? (Well, that may just be a smart move – a lot of Democrats have passed as well!) It would be like me saying all Democrats are like you – that would be unfair to intelligent Democrats everywhere.
May 7th, 2010 on 6:50 am
Methinks the gentleman doth protest his tolerance too much.
May 8th, 2010 on 3:42 pm
That’s a pretty stupid thing to say when you’ve just made a blanket statement that if your Republican you hate Latinos. I guess you’d prefer to take your shot and then have no reply. I used your incorrect statements to illustrate they were wrong. Since you brought them up, it seems a little hypocritical to turn around and say the answering your charges is protesting too much. I love how liberals love to throw out baseless accusations and then when you respond to them, they turn around and try to make your response as proof you’re the bad guy!
May 7th, 2010 on 7:05 am
OMG, leftfield! You are truly an idiot! First you have no right to tell anyone how they can or cannot address Krysten! How arrogant of you!
It’s not a matter of rights. It is a matter of respect and a matter of your using a familiar form of address when it is not appropriate in order to diminish her. This is just a few years and one step removed from referring to any mature black woman as “aunty”. It is the written equivalent of listening patiently and then patting her on the head and saying, “Isn’t she cute? Now, why don’t you go powder your nose honey”.
Yes, you are probably ok with her having a position of some authority, but you are darn sure going to remind her and all of us that no matter what, you’re still holding the ace.
It is particularly galling and demeaning to hear comments about her appearance, but then I suppose you are left confused as to how this could possibly be offensive to anyone.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:12 am
People in the public arena are often addressed by their first names, and many politicians encourage it as it makes them seem more approachable and one of the folks. Maybe you use that technique to diminish someone, but it doesn’t mean anyone else does. You are superimposing what you most likely do onto someone else. Maybe they are using it to diminish her, but maybe they aren’t. Not everyone has your omniscience. Regardless, the point is you are not the arbiter of address. If it means that much to her, the representative can choose to correct them herself. You are trying to diminish others and elevate yourself by deciding how someone can be addressed.
I have no idea what you’re talking about by saying that although I have no problem with a woman having a position of authority, I am going to remind her and everyone else that I’m still holding an ace. If I did, that would mean I have a problem with her having a position of authority. It can’t be both ways. If she is in the position of authority, what ace do I have? Nice try, throwing out nonsensical accusations, but it doesn’t fly, nor is it logical.
I completely understand why remarking, out of context, that she is hot. She isn’t in a wet t-shirt contest, she is writing an article… as wrong as it may be. Her publicity photo shows that she appears to be an attractive woman. Her looks have no bearing on her being wrong on the issues, however. I’m sure those that commented on her hotness are very happy to have gotten your goat.
May 8th, 2010 on 10:49 am
If you will look back at Sen. Allen’s opinion piece, you will notice that her supporters, with one exception, refer to her as Senator Allen. Here, the right-wingers refer to Rep. Sinema mostly as “Krysten”. Perhaps just random chance, but I doubt it.
If someone introduces themselves in a certain way, you should refer to them in that way until they tell you otherwise. No, I am not the arbiter of address and neither are you allowed to assume that Rep. Sinema should be addressed by her first name until she tells you to do so.
I’m sure those that commented on her hotness…
I think you’re exposing yourself here. Even when you dress up your arguments with superficial civility, the truth shines through.
May 27th, 2010 on 8:04 am
Intelligent democrats? Do they exist>
May 6th, 2010 on 8:22 pm
You sure are a good looking woman, but you’re dumb as a stick…
May 6th, 2010 on 10:23 pm
What a moronic and neandertal, sexist thing to say.
May 7th, 2010 on 5:33 am
leftfield : What a moronic and neandertal, sexist thing to say.
Now lefty – please don’t insult the Neanderthals.
May 7th, 2010 on 6:45 am
Interesting-white folks of European origin may be part Neanderthal;some more than others it would seem. I’ve had my suspicions.
May 7th, 2010 on 11:05 am
what a moronic, racist thing to say. pointless us
May 7th, 2010 on 8:28 pm
I’ve been over this so many times that I’m tired of doing it, but, just for you, Andrew, I will go over it one more time. There is no such thing as reverse racism. I could be guilty of expressing some prejudice towards white people here, and, were I to refuse to hire someone based on their being white, I suppose I would be guilty of discriminating against that person. Racism, however, is a different animal. Racism refers to a long-standing, entrenched, institutional and broad-based system of oppression of a subordinate race by the dominant race, such has been present in this country since its inception.
As such, it is not possible for me to practice racism towards white people. I happen to be white myself, but this is not the central issue here. It is inconceivable that I or even a million clones of myself, could systematically effect the oppression of the white race; condemning them to high rates of imprisonment and poverty. Nor do my comments really carry any sting and this is precisely because they carry no real weight vis a vis caucasians. For example, if I call a white fellow a ‘cracker’, he’s not really hurt. If he takes offense, it has more to do with the implications it has regarding his financial status and educational level than his race. Now, consider calling a black person the “N” word. It is painful, and largely because it is a reminder that no matter what his accomplishments and his humanity might be, he and I both no that he can never acheive first class status in this society under the current system of social relations; that he will always be defined as “less than” based solely on skin color.
The notion of reverse racism was invented by those who wish to maintain the current status quo as regards the races. They use this to justify efforts to prevent and eliminate social programs designed to correct inequalities and to accuse their enemies of the crimes they themselves are guilty of in an attempt to deflect blame and prevent change at the same time.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:36 am
The idea is more reverse discrimination than racism. And, usually when people use the term racist they actually mean bigot.
A racist is someone who thinks that just being of a certain race makes them better than someone of another race. Simply being white means he is better than a black person. Even if the white person dropped out of school in the 8th grade, works a minimum wage job and lives in a rotting trailer in the desert, he thinks he is superior to a black man who graduated from college, earns a six figure income and lives in the best part of town. A racist can be friends with someone of another race, do business with someone of another race, got to a BBQ at the house of someone of another race, but he feels that he is superior to them simply because he is white.
Webster defines a bigot as, “ a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.” You won’t find them befriending someone of another race. More likely, you’ll find them throwing rocks at them. It doesn’t matter if the black person discovered the cure for cancer, they would hate them anyway. The KKK were racists and bigots.
The people who rail against those of us who support SB1070 are usually inferring that the reason we are against illegal immigration is not because we object to people breaking the law and coming here illegally, but it’s because we hate Mexicans. The implication is that we don’t want any Mexican coming into our country, legally or otherwise. They have managed to make legal and illegal immigration mean the same thing. The same people who would not tolerate someone breaking into their home because they were trying to make a better life for themselves and their family, somehow think it is ok for them to do the same thing to our country.
If you go by the defined meaning of the words, racism is racism and there is no such thing as reverse racism. A white person thinking they are better than a black person simply because they are white is no different, or less racist, than a black person thinking they are better than a white person simply because they’re black.
The majority of leftfield’s response is more about reverse oppression. It would be difficult for black people, or Hispanic people, to oppress white people, although South Africa certainly showed it is possible for a minority to oppress a majority.
You can certainly have reverse discrimination when you decide that since Race A was oppressed and treated unfairly by Race B, you will now give Race A preference over Race B simply because they are of Race A, regardless if they deserve the selection. Therefore, you have minorities in positions of power where they are ineffective because they don’t have the proper skills, and those under them don’t respect them because they know they got the position for reasons other than ability. You have minorities being given entrance to higher education who never graduate because the extra points given them at entrance doesn’t translate to being able to actually do the work and get the grades. Or you have people who make it through because professors are afraid to fail them because they will be considered “racist” so they graduate and are unable to read their diploma.
However, you also end up with minorities who go on to do great things or have great success because they were able to avail themselves of opportunities that otherwise may have been denied them.
The problem is that at some point you have to make the laws that simply give no preference to anyone because of race, but based only on ability. Otherwise you end up with what we see so often as a group of people who wallow in a culture of victimization and the preferential treatment does nothing to encourage them to stand on their own, or results in them demanding even more preferential treatment.
May 8th, 2010 on 10:26 am
The majority of what you say actually makes some logical sense; right up until the end when the conclusion you draw from your essay is that oppressed people are not only oppressed, but suffer from chronic laziness and failure to “stand on their own two feet”.
“Race neutral” selection sounds fine on the face of it, but what you fail to recognize is that the system as it exists today and has always existed, already gives preference to the white and the wealthy, both criteria that largely exclude minorities.
Affirmative Action programs certainly have their problems, but the right wing has no intention of replacing them with more effective programs to address racism, only of eliminating them in order to eliminate what they perceive as a threat to white privilege.
May 8th, 2010 on 3:56 pm
As I said, laws need to be passed to enforce racial neutrality. Simply saying that since there has been historical bias toward one race doesn’t mean you have to enforce reverse discrimination forever. There is nobody alive that was a slave or owned a slave. Great strides have been made in race relations. No, it isn’t perfect, but it never will be. Move to Africa and see if they accept you and give you the same opportunities as they do their own race. Every culture and race is naturally biased toward those who are like them rather than different. So are you. I sincerely doubt that you would be just as interested, happy, and comfortable attending a Tea Party as you would a MoveOn.org event. You prefer to be around people who are more like you than those who aren’t. So am I. I wouldn’t refuse to hire you because of your beliefs if you were qualified for the job, though, and I wouldn’t give preference to someone who was less qualified but had more conservative beliefs. My self-interest wouldn’t allow that because I want the job to be done the best way by the person who is most qualified. Anything else works against my goal of having a successful business and making as much money as I can.
That’s what the laws have to do. As long as you give preferences, it is unavoidable that people are going to get opportunities they aren’t qualified for and in the long run, it does more harm than good.
I’m not saying oppressed or formerly oppressed people are chronically lazy. Most people and animals are susceptible to having their motivation stripped from them if there is an easier way to do something. If someone is faced with working hard in the sun for 8 hours a day for 10.00/hr or sitting at home on their butt for 80% of the money, most people will stay home. If someone is faced with studying hard for a test and giving up time having fun with their friends, but you tell them that if they get an 85 they will be credited with a 95, most people will go out and party rather than study. If you throw out meat every day to a wild animal, soon you have a lot of wild animals waiting for their food, and after a few generation, they no longer know how to hunt.
When you create a dependent class, even under the guise of helping them, you remove their will to work and be productive and eventually they don’t know any other way of life. Look at the housing projects. Many of them started out as very nice places, but you put people in them who had to make no sacrifice to get it, they have no pride of ownership and the places turn into dumps. It’s just human nature, whether the people are oppressed or not.
May 9th, 2010 on 9:14 am
Move to Africa and see if they accept you and give you the same opportunities as they do their own race. Every culture and race is naturally biased toward those who are like them rather than different.
“I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these well-poisoners of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We would willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a thousand-mark note for travelling expenses, if we could get rid of them.”
(Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler)
May 6th, 2010 on 10:16 pm
Thank you, Rep Sinema.
We need to elect more rational people like you to the state legislature. During these difficult economic times, thoughtful deliberation is needed to assess a multitude of compromises necessary to resolve the state’s financial crisis.
Scapegoating hispanics may placate some, but it does nothing to address the problems confronting Arizona.
Heavy penalties for employers of illegal aliens is the only way to eliminate the reason for them crossing the border. If there is no possibility of finding a job, most will stop crossing the border and staying.
This would leave the drug smugglers and criminals with which to deal.
Unfortunately, the majority of our legislature would not support enforcing employer sanctions, since they are the largest contributors to incumbents campaigns.
Still, I appreciate your efforts. There may yet come a time when reason prevails.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:41 am
Well, how about if you tackle ALL the problems? Are you saying that we should ignore the waves of illegal immigration? Or, that doing one precludes the other? How about sealing the border, being as vigorous in ascertaining the legality of someone requesting services or living in our country as other countries, including Mexico, do, sanctioning employers who hire illegal workers, and beefing up security at the border to also interdict the drugs and other things being smuggled across? It galls me when people act as if we should ignore the illegal aliens simply because there are other problems are well. Very few problems are solved by concentrating on only one area. The big oil spill in the Gulf is not being solved by only doing one thing. They’re capping the leak, skimming the oil, dropping soapy solution onto it to disperse it and burning some as well. Your attitude seems to suggest that they shouldn’t bother skimming because they haven’t capped it off yet!
May 8th, 2010 on 6:42 am
Arizona has good reason to carry the torch to get the control over the illegal aliens started (many years overdue). and sounds like you have the right people in place to at least get it started and if this country had more people like Your Gov. this thing would have a fighting chance. The uninformed public at large that doesn’t pay much attn. to this issue, sounds like most just get on the fence with the “racial” crowd just for arguments sake.
For those types of folks, get on a plane to somewhere out of this country and when you get to your destination and if that destination requires you to have certian I.D. or proof of who you are, walk over to the trash dumpster and toss it in and go run around and safely enjoy your stay, and if for some reason you are i.e. pulled over by the cops for a traffic violation and you can’t prove who you are, it probably will not make much difference what color your skin is, because chances are that that country enforces their laws that require you be documented in some way and they most likley don’t just send you back home so you can just come back, no, your going to have problems, and it won’t be racial it will be because they enforce the laws that are on the books, and for good reason because it’s just good bussiness to know who is going in and out of the country because a lot of people (if you haven’t noticed) are up to no good. So it’s simple, if you here legally don’t worry, if not get out or fix your situation, it is possible to do that, this country is full of people that done it that way.
May 17th, 2010 on 12:06 pm
to: bobpaul17 May 6th 10:16pm Read the bill….it devotes a great deal of its contents to penalties for employers of illegals. Reason has prevailed.
May 6th, 2010 on 10:30 pm
There is a lot of support for the new law across the US. Another website came online today supporting SB 1070(http://www.arizonaboycotts.org). The boycotts may end up backfiring on the boycotters.
May 6th, 2010 on 11:26 pm
Krysten, Krysten, Krysten! (Take that, leftfield, and you truly are out there)
One of your main points is the law amounts to an unfunded mandate on law enforcement. Considering that the law states that the only time an officer can check a persons status is when there has already been a contact for another reason such as a traffic stop or a crime, etc., how is that adding significant cost for law enforcement? Have the law enforcement agencies hooked into the system that is already used by employers to verify legal status of job applicants and all it takes is entering someones SSN into a field and clicking “OK” I fail to see how that costs additional money. They can even use the same computer they already have. Most run an operating system that allows a user to run more than one program at a time and it would just be another window to switch to. Very expensive.
You chide that Republicans have offered only patchwork solutions. However, as with SB1070, anytime anyone tries to put forth something to deal with any immigration issues, your party blocks it. Republicans may be offering patchwork solutions, but your party isn’t offering anything other than to close our eyes, pay lip service to protecting the border (but God forbid if we actually tried to do anything about that as has been proven anytime it’s been tried and the Democrats raise a hue and cry and try to block anything that impedes the flow) and sit back and watch the problems get worse and worse. I came to AZ in 1984 and have seen a huge difference in the problem since then.
You decry all the budget cuts that are requiring cuts in various programs. Did you ever stop and think that maybe if we didn’t have to pay so much money supporting the illegal population, we could use that money for the very services you’re complaining are being cut? Billions of dollars are being spent because of the illegal population and that means those billions of dollars have to come from somewhere. Our state’s income is finite and you can’t spend what you don’t have.
If police are sued for enforcing the law, that shows how screwed up the legal system is, but doesn’t mean you don’t do anything. Just because some idiot might spill hot coffee on themselves and then sue the restaurant doesn’t mean everyone should stop serving coffee. People like you are already trying to pick and choose what laws to enforce or not enforce. Police officers are to enforce the law, whatever it is. If they don’t feel they can, then they should be fired or reassigned to an area where they aren’t responsible for law enforcement and just push papers.
You’re right – the federal government IS supposed to enforce the immigration laws but they have refused to do so. So is our state just supposed to sit back and allow ourselves to be overrun by illegal aliens and go bankrupt paying the costs? Something has to be done. Crime and violence are problems, but if we can ascertain someone’s status and deport them if they are here illegally, it will help with those problems. We do need to seal our border as well, but you have us in a Catch-22 situation where we don’t do anything because the other hasn’t been done first.
No, we do NOT need a system that allows those here illegally to become legal. An announcement should be made (in English and Spanish) that if you’re here illegally, you have six months to get out. If you are caught here illegally after that, you will be arrested, fingerprinted, DNA taken and deported and never allowed to apply to come into the USA. Any situation you have involved yourself with such as family, business, property, etc., is your problem as you knew you were here illegally and that separation from those things was a possibility. If it is too cruel to split up a family, the entire family can go back with them. Any children born with an illegal parent should not be a citizen. It isn’t their fault, but you wouldn’t allow someone to rob a bank, get away with it for 15 years and then when they’re caught allow the kids to keep the stolen money, would you? You wouldn’t argue against the robber going to jail because it would split up the family, either.
The root cause of illegal immigration is because the governments these people come from are corrupt, and that is something they have to solve, not us. For years, the USA has been a pressure relief valve for Mexico and other corrupt, third world nations. The corruption and lack of leadership results in poverty. If the people can sneak into our country and get jobs and have us subsidize their lives so they can send money back home, then that is what they will do. If we seal the border and send them back home, eventually they are going to revolt and demand their country change. It’s no wonder Mexico wants our border porous while vigorously enforcing their own. They know if the people can’t come here, they’re going to have to start answering for their corrupt ways, and they don’t want that.
May 7th, 2010 on 4:56 am
Thank you Rep. Sinema. I thought I was the only person who noticed that Sylvia’s widely praised letter letter made no sense whatsoever – justifying a racial profiling law by claiming that it was an effort to control the border and border violence.
(If the Legislature actually had passed a bill to increase border enforcement, for instance, there would be no controversy).
Of course one reason Sylvia’s letter appears to be widely praised (and my observation invisible) is that, unlike your letter, according to TC.com policy commenters who disagree may not be allowed to post a response.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:48 am
Right. I think you meant to day that “Sylvia’s widely praised letter letter made no sense whatsoever whatsoever.” I don’t see a response from leftfield chastising you for calling her Sylvia, though.
You have apparently not read the law but are only listening to those who are against anything that might inconvenience someone here illegally.
The law, as originally written and then clarified later to try and make it more clear to people like you, clearly says that police can’t just pull someone over because they’re of a certain race and demand proof of legality. They are only allowed to do so if that person is already in another legal contact by the police such as a traffic stop or other legal matter. That is NOT racial profiling unless they are only pulling over speeders that are Hispanic.
Again, there are many problems as a result of the porosity of our border and it is going to require many different actions. Increasing security is important, fining employers for hiring illegal workers is important, and so is determining if someone is here illegally and sending them home if they are.
“Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal … are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues.” – Racist, Arizona law? No – Article 67 of Mexico’s Population Law
May 7th, 2010 on 5:30 am
Krysten would have you throw out the baby with the bathwater and focus only on the temperature of the bathwater; her rhetoric is part of the smoke and mirrors along with the red herrings that is pervasive in the anti-American movement within the United States! She offers no solutions for the immediate problems!
May 8th, 2010 on 1:49 am
Exactly!
May 7th, 2010 on 5:33 am
Since this is an opportunity to “judge”, here is my thinking. Whether it is Mexifornia, Arizona, New Mexico, or any state that has a large illegal population, the added burden to the tax paying citizen is increased unduly. There are no perfect answers, but to not do anything (as the U S government has done) is inane if not insane. We have no chance of returning our country to the American people unless the American people stand up and take it back. Throwing out the people who are here illegally is a good start. If you disagree with getting rid of the illegals then you are a part of the problem. Nuf said.
May 7th, 2010 on 10:53 am
Kyrsten Sinema may know how old the earth is but she is too ignorant about illegal immigration to do anything about it! In her letter she does not have ANY ideas to STOP illegal immigration. She wants to put all the responsibility on “congress” and the “federal government” and then cry “Boo Hoo Hoo they dont do anything about it!”…its easy to say, “Well its not our (states) responsibility, its the feds responsibility to enforce illegal immigration laws.” UMMm well if they arent enforcing the immigration law then it is up to the state to take on the responsibility of enforcing those laws in a way that is applicable to that state. As far as I can see in Kyrsten Sinems’s letter it is more important to have the money prosecute a juvenile for stealing a garden hoe, or for grafitti then to enforce illegal immigration laws! Come on! Doesn’t she know that it is illegal immigrant kids OR the illegal’s kids who are comitting crimes too? GET to the ROOT of the problems first, and pick your battles well. Let the police officers (many of which are Hispanic too) do their jobs and help enforce illegal immigration laws! Cudos for Sylvia Allen for having the guts to actually DO something about illegal immigration instead of sitting back and criticizing others as Mrs. Sinema seems to be doing!
May 7th, 2010 on 11:20 am
Cudos? Kudos? Whatever…..
May 7th, 2010 on 11:35 am
I agree with this article. It will make Arizona the most racist state in the U.S.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:51 am
You are so funny. And, so ignorant of the law! Read it and then comment. Sheesh!
May 7th, 2010 on 12:52 pm
Kyrsten is wrong. The law is already working. Illegals are leaving; with their anchor babies.
May 7th, 2010 on 9:42 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/02/oklahoma.immigration/
Why is it that only Arizona is getting attention? This is a national issue and Arizona is not the only state to take action, they just have more people abusing their system who are concerned about the fact that they will lose their meal ticket and more horrifying stories of how the criminal element that comes with a lack of enforcement are affecting innocent people.
“I work hard because millions on welfare depend on me.”
May 7th, 2010 on 10:33 pm
The law is already working. Illegals are leaving; with their anchor babies.
Yes, as intended many are moving to more civilized climes like New Mexico or California.
As are many businesses.
However the defenders of the law claim (in public) that “working” means reducing border violence – it isn’t “working” there at all.
May 8th, 2010 on 4:03 pm
More civilized climes? Riiiiiight! If other states want to bankrupt themselves by subsidizing illegals, then more power to them. Eventually, they will have to do the same thing and crack down on them and they’ll have to move again. Hopefully, eventually they will move back to their country of origin as they should.
It isn’t about compassion. I feel sorry for them, but you can’t flood an area with more people than the infrastructure is capable of handling without problems. Why do you think you have to wait six hours in the ER now? It isn’t because so many people are having serious problems. You can’t build 200 hundred houses in an area that only has electricity, water and sewer to support 50.
Immigration laws are there for discriminatory purposes, as they should be. If someone is a criminal, you don’t want them in the country. If they are carrying a disease, you don’t want them coming in. If they have no viable skills, you don’t want them coming in as there is no way they will be anything but a drain on the economy. If they are known to be against your government and want to overthrow it, you don’t want them coming in.
If people just sneak across and then are rewarded by getting everything a citizen would, you end up with a lot of problems. More civilized would be apropos if Arizona was turning away legal immigrants as well as illegal aliens, but they’re not. I welcome anyone from anywhere who comes here legally. I want to send home anyone who comes here illegally regardless of their race or country of origin. That is not “racist” or bigoted.
May 9th, 2010 on 12:13 am
“As are many businesses.” ????
you are right, i just passed two u-hauls with business signs say”moving out of az”.
businesses moving. pathetically stupid comment.
May 8th, 2010 on 1:04 am
The whole damn enchilada is a wonderful distraction from an intractable and dysfunctional State Government that has NO plan to balance its budget and closed the session with near financial malfeasance–NO plan, and we are all lathered about an Immigration Bill that will bankrupt the State while it engages in Ethnic cleansing. NO plan to balance the budget and we do not even talk about it, while we argue over brown and white. What a disgrace of leadership. And not a peep about a wonderful Bill that passed to help veterans. One of your bloggers wrote about it.
Some things to consider. Many of those illegals came here legally and did not renew. That is wrong and needs to be corrected. Even George Bush had a plan for that, but his fellow Elephants stepped on him. The same ones who cannot balance budgets.
Yet remember that these workers had Social Security deductions from their checks. They will never see that money. We actually MADE money on some these workers.
Truckers are exempt due to NAFTA/ CAFTA. How are you going to have a protected class? Some interesting Karma here.
Where do you think our food comes from? Tucson don’t make no food! Seen the tomatoes lately? Mexico could just stop delivering food.
The hospitals are reimbursed by the Feds to care for the indigent. It is a 3:1 ratio. $3 for every $1 spent. So in fact we MAKE money on the backs of the poor. It is still our tax dollars but it is always mis-stated when you hear the these Mexicans are costing us a mint. Not so true. Which is why the local hospitals compete so vigorously to get those contracts. A debt ridden income stream is better than no income. That was the way the Bush Administration ran things. Trickle down debt.
We are in the midst of the biggest social engineering in our history. Immigration reform never meant a thing, because it was the cheap labor that was breaking the backs of the Union Labor. That was the goal. That has been done. So now we see reform. Do not ever think this was coincidental.
Next is Municipal unions and school teachers. Our roads are going to go to hell in the next 5 years, proving the need for private contractors for all transportation management. We will see the complete decline of the Public School system in the next 10 years, and the rise of wealthy owners of Charter Schools. Like the Turks who own Sonoran Science Academy.
In closing…. what is the plan now..to balance the State Budget? Or are we just going to let one issue dictate our every waking hour?
May 8th, 2010 on 5:43 am
On another site a commenter stated: The United States is a sovereign nation, not a subsidiary of Mexico, and its taxpayers are not responsible for the welfare of Mexico ‘s citizens… I couldn’t agree more.
Once upon a time, people came here for a better life and to become Americans. They learned the language as fast as they could and they wanted to contribute to America. Make their mark in this country.
Today, we have people who hate America coming here to rape the system, sell their drugs, bring their socialist mentality and corrupt powers of reasoning to inflict these on America. Not to give back to America but to tear her down. These people march to demand gov’t. handouts, benefits and that the rest of America, including legalized immigrants, kowtow to their needs.
No one asked you to come here, you are not wanted nor welcomed and it would be best if you would go home. Come here through the Path to Citizenship already in place. March in your country. Demand your government clean up it’s act and stop robbing your people…but you can’t because your government will through you in jail.
Calif spent over $970 million dollars to incarcerate illegals (drug dealers, murderers, rapist and gang members, etc.) just in 2009. No wonder that state is in bankruptcy and that is just the prison system.
Illegals have brought this on themselves. They have committed the crimes against this nation by taking the first step of crossing into this country illegally.
May 8th, 2010 on 8:34 am
Once upon a time, people came here for a better life and to become Americans. They learned the language as fast as they could and they wanted to contribute to America.
‘…formerly Germany, without blinking an eyelid, for whole decades admitted these Jews by the hundred thousand. But now… when the nation is no longer willing to be sucked dry by these parasites, on every side one hears nothing but laments’.
…bring their socialist mentality and corrupt powers of reasoning to inflict these on America. Not to give back to America but to tear her down. These people march to demand gov’t. handouts, benefits and that the rest of America, including legalized immigrants, kowtow to their needs.
‘Only a handful of Germans in the Reich had the slightest conception of the eternal and merciless struggle for the German language, German schools, and a German way of life’.
No one asked you to come here, you are not wanted nor welcomed and it would be best if you would go home.
“Unless we expel the Jewish people soon, they will have judaized our people within a very short time.”
The non-italicized quotes are from your good friend Adolph. You owe him a debt of gratitude for your inspiration.
May 8th, 2010 on 12:41 pm
Completely specious and a laughable attempt.
We aren’t talking about legal immigration here. Germany allowing Jewish people to come into the country legally and then do what they did is far different than people coming here illegally. Now, if SB1070 was saying that since the economy is down, we need to round up all Hispanic immigrants and ship them back to Mexico so there would be more jobs for white people, then your comparison would make sense.
As usual, you selected a completely non-related event and tried to link it. Sort of like equating legal immigrants with illegal immigrants. So, I guess you are at least consistent.
Also, tiponeill left a comment where she called Sylvia Allen by her first name. I saw no comment from you telling her it was Rep. Allen to them and that calling her by her first name without permission was diminishing her. So, I assume you just didn’t see it.
As for you tailing comments on affirmative action, I did not say that all oppressed people are lazy, etc., things really do sail right over your head, don’t they?
At the very beginning of that sentence, I said that “LAWS NEED TO BE PASSED to eliminate preferences based on race.” Read very slowly… it increases comprehension. If you have a system that, as you claim, inherently favors white people and discriminates against minorities, you remove the preference laws and pass ones that ensure a level playing field. Hiring someone because they are white is just as wrong as not hiring them because they are white. Same for black or brown.
As for your chronic laziness observation, I said that too many times preference programs result in people wallowing in a culture of victimization rather than moving on and relegating it to history and its presence hopefully ensuring it is not repeated. My heart breaks when I see old film of how black people were treated in the past and during the civil rights movement. The PBS mini-series, “Eyes on the Prize” broke my heart and brought tears to my eyes. A little black boy was killed simply because he dared to speak to a white woman! That’s horrible and egregious!!! We’ve made great strides in race relations, and we certainly have a long way to go in some areas, but to set things up so people will spend the next 20 generations connecting more with what happened in the past rather than looking to the future isn’t going to help them. You can’t expect to get equal treatment at the same time you’re demanding special treatment. It creates animosity and keeps the “us vx. them” feeling going, and it ingrains within people that on their own, they can’t accomplish anything worthwhile. If two people apply for a job and one is white, the other is black, and the black person legitimately has better qualifications, then he gets the job. It’s how I worked when I hired and fired people in the past. I didn’t care what color they were as long as I thought they could do the job. I hired many black and Hispanic people over their white counterparts because of that. It didn’t matter to me, and that’s how it should be.
May 8th, 2010 on 5:00 pm
Oh, I think the parallels between coffeecup’s demonization of immigrants and Hitler’s demonization of Jews are pretty obvious. After all, this is how these things get started. Once people can convince themselves that this or that group is different than them; undeserving of equal protection and deserving blame for all of a societies problems, the sky is the limit. Before you know what happened, we’ll be building little concentration camps to hold the “undesirables”.
May 8th, 2010 on 5:04 pm
If you have a system that, as you claim, inherently favors white people and discriminates against minorities, you remove the preference laws and pass ones that ensure a level playing field.
Sounds great and good luck with that. My own feeling is that the group holding the power is unlikely to legislate themselves out of power. No, I don’t believe that we can see the end of racism in this country short of revolutionary change in the system of social relations.
May 9th, 2010 on 12:25 am
No, his comments were aimed strictly at illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants. No matter how much you wish legal and illegal immigration were the same thing, it is not. One is following the law and the other is breaking the law. Someone who enters this country legally with the intention of becoming a citizen is more likely to assimilate than someone whose very first interaction with our country is to thumb their nose at its laws. It is nothing like Hitler who painted all Jews with the same brush when virtually all of them were citizens of Germany and legal residents.
Legal immigrants deserve all the protections of the law. Illegal immigrants do not. The rights and services of our country are there as a benefit for citizens and sneaking across the border doesn’t automatically confer upon you all those rights. You have a right to not have the crap beaten out of you like what happened in Seattle, but you don’t have the right to be catered to and treated like a citizen. You may not want to admit it, but someone here illegally IS different than a citizen or legal resident. They’re criminals and should be treated as such. Treat them with dignity and respect as a human being while you take them back home. A criminal isn’t deserving of the protection and rights of someone who is law-abiding and that is proven every day with virtually every other crime. It’s just for some reason you and others want to ignore this particular crime. And, we already have little concentration camps to hold the “undesirables.” They’re called prisons and they’re for people who break the law, which is exactly what an illegal alien has done.
May 18th, 2010 on 6:50 pm
Your twisted Socialist mind can see nothing. This is the problem with people who have no love for America and no loyalty to the Spirit of America. You can not grasp it. The Jews were treated horribly by the mentally deranged Nazis, there is no argument but you are stuck in a rut.
There are some things, which are mutually exclusive in their current state. A truth & a lie. A Christian & an Atheist. An American & an Obama supporter. IF you were to mutate the American, I suppose they could exist as an Obama supporter, however the principles of Socialism contradict the Rights enumerated in the Constitution, so there is no way a “loyal American” could ever support a “Socialist president”, therefore it becomes an oxymoron.
http://overmycoffeecup.blogspot.com/2010/05/are-holder-and-obama-guilty-of-treason.html
May 8th, 2010 on 8:25 am
Cholla Jumps sez:
What calibrates your moral compass?
J.D. Hayworth sez:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ. I am a Christian…
Hitler said:
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: ‘by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.’
May 8th, 2010 on 12:47 pm
And, what does that have to do with anything?
Islam is supposed to be the religion of peace, yet you have a radical subset taking the very same Koran and using it as justification for committing horrible acts of terrorism. So, by the logic in your post above, we are supposed to dismiss any average Muslim who follows their religion peacefully and lump them in with the terrorists? It looks as if that’s what you’re saying.
Or, maybe it’s just someone who professes Christianity that you feel should be denigrated? Or, maybe it’s because J.D> Hayworth is black is why you attribute those sort of feelings to him?
Let me explain something about logic to you, leftfield, since you don’t seem to have a very good concept of it. If you have a large pool of behavior or belief, such as Christianity, you can’t take the behavior of an isolated minority and logically assume that since Practitioner A believes om Belief A, that since Practitioner B believes in Belief A, that Practitioner B is therefore the same as Practitioner A. By your logic above, since some illegal immigrants bring drugs over the border with them, all illegal immigrants do so.
May 8th, 2010 on 2:11 pm
You’re right-you can’t take the bad behavior of one and generalize it to the entire group. Now, let me explain something to you, TM: by the same logic, but inverted, you should not assume that Mr. Hayworth is a good man because he claims christianity. My point was that claiming christianity as your guide means absolutely nothing, though it sounds good on first hearing. From Hitler on down to George Bush they’ve all claimed they had god on their side.
Still, I will grant you that claiming christianity is enough to lose my vote.
May 8th, 2010 on 3:29 pm
I’m not assuming that Mr. Hayworth is a good man simply because he claims Christianity, but it seems a little extreme to pull out Hitler simply because he did. Although, I would assume you don’t like J.D. very much as many of your beliefs would seem to be diametrically opposed.
Many Democrats have made the same claim, although usually it’s only around election time and in Black churches. I still get a chill down my spine when I hear Hillary Clinton going into “Black Preacher” cadence at a black church during her campaign.
If I had to choose between George Bush having God on his side, or Osama bin Laden, I think I’d go with George.
May 8th, 2010 on 5:08 pm
Many Democrats have made the same claim…
True that. Realize that I consider democrats and liberals as well-intentioned, but misguided. Misguided because they believe that capitalism can be made humane and equitable through reform. As such, they are still acting in support of a murderous system, although they quibble with Republicans over how many deaths and how much oppression is acceptable.
May 8th, 2010 on 5:45 pm
F. Lee Bailey once said, “America has the worst judicial system in the world, except for all the rest of them!”
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.
Communism has failed everywhere it’s been tried.
The problem with socialism is socialism. The problem with capitalism is capitalists.
The problem with socialism and communism are themselves. Human nature will not allow for an idyllic, communal sort of relationship where everyone is equal and shares and shares alike. You always have people who are lazy and people who work. You have leaders and followers. You can give 1000 people the exact same amount of money and land and within a year, you’ll have a group of wealthy people and a group of poor people. Europe has gone along for a long time with is socialist programs and welfare society, largely because their defense budget has been practically nothing. They depend on America to protect them if they are attacked. Now, they’re running out of other peoples money and the consequences are beginning. Money is not inexhaustible and has to come from somewhere. When you remove the incentive for individual performance by confiscating from those who work hard and produce and distribute it to those who don’t work or produce, eventually the producers get tired of it and stop producing. For some reason, leaders don’t make the connection that in any other area of life, when you raise the cost of something, you decrease the use of it, yet they think they can raise taxes higher and higher and there will be no ramifications to it.
Capitalism isn’t perfect, but it’s most closely aligned to human nature. Unfettered capitalism wont’ work because they are too many people who are willing to overlook long term issues for short term gain, and those who are willing to take advantage of others. Regulation and oversight help to alleviate some of that, but will never eliminate all because in any system there are always people who prefer to game the system for their own reward. However, I think there has been far fewer deaths and proportionate misery under capitalism than under socialism or communism. I’ve never heard of a capitalist nation slaughtering millions of their own people like you saw in Russia, China, Vietnam, and many other places. Capitalism isn’t perfect, but you’ll never find any other system that overall works better.
May 8th, 2010 on 8:36 pm
Human nature will not allow for an idyllic, communal sort of relationship where everyone is equal and shares and shares alike.
This is called the “biological determinism” argument.
You can give 1000 people the exact same amount of money and land and within a year, you’ll have a group of wealthy people and a group of poor people.
This is called the “inevitability of capitalism” argument.
Capitalism isn’t perfect, but you’ll never find any other system that overall works better.
This is called the “Best of all possible worlds argument”.
We’ve heard ‘em all and still believe a better world is possible and a different US is absolutely necessary.
May 9th, 2010 on 12:05 am
Right. Make up all the fancy deterministic jargon you want and it doesn’t change human nature. If it hasn’t worked by now, it isn’t going to. There’s a reason the other forms don’t work, and every time the cycle comes around and someone tries again, they find that the same things that caused them to fail in the first place, causes failure again. I don’t care how you try to spin it, if you try to put people under a form of government where those who work end up with no or little advantage over those that don’t, you are going to end up with the majority of the people under that system not working. You can believe and wish all you want that gravity doesn’t exist, but when you step off the edge of that cliff, you’re going down.
If you think the other forms of government are so much better, move to another country that practices it and enjoy yourself. America became great because of our freedoms and capitalism. As you mold it more and more into the image of other countries, you will end up like those other countries and life will be worse, not better. As has been said, the problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money, and that is exactly what is happening in Europe right now, with Greece being the prime example.
May 9th, 2010 on 7:42 am
You know that capitalism is a relatively recent phenomenon in the course of human history, don’t you? It is also an economic system and not a form of government. Also, the law of gravity is not really a suitable analogy for human behavior, nor a suitable argument that attempts at a more just and equitable world are doomed to failure.
When you say “America became great…”, exactly what do you mean by great? Do you think that the people of Vietnam, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, etc, are grateful for America’s “greatness”?
May 9th, 2010 on 7:45 am
BTW-you have what appears to be a pretty limited understanding of Socialism. You might try learning a little more about it. Fear not – you will not become a bomb-throwing Trotskyite just from reading a book. It could even give you some more reasons to oppose communism.
May 9th, 2010 on 9:23 am
P.S.: is America “great” for the millions of children who will go to bed hungry tonight? How about the thousands who will die from untreated illness, or be destined to poverty for the crime of becoming ill? Is America “great” for the poor, the powerless and unrepresented? How about the millions of people around the world living in poverty while they make your clothes and grow your food? How about the migrant whom was forced to leave his home by trade agreements that benefit only the ruling class, only to come to America in order to be abused, scapegoated and exploited even further?
Sure, America has been great to me, and you seem pretty happy yourself. But, as you yourself once said, “It’s not all about you”.
May 10th, 2010 on 2:21 am
I do know that Socialism is an economic system, and the majority of my comments have been in the economic vein. Governments embrace Socialism as their ruling philosophy and therefore you hear that country x is a “Socialist government.”
The law of gravity is an immutable law that doesn’t require anyone to believe in it for it to be so and for all to pay the consequences of it if they step off a cliff. Similarly, human nature is what it is and while you will get a very small subset of people who at least profess to be altruistic and desirous that the individuals tendency to do the best for themselves, there have never been enough to make much of a dent in the reality of it. That’s why in communist countries especially, and even in socialist countries, you have the leaders or ruling class that lives much better than those they are supposed to ensure receive an equitable distribution of goods and services. They profess but they don’t want it for themselves. How many of the communes started in the sixties and seventies survived? It didn’t take long for the idealism to vaporize in the face of the reality that the majority wanted to lay around and screw and smoke pot and then expected to partake equally in what the others contributed.
It just doesn’t work, and without a ruthless ruling class keeping the peace, communism and socialism eventually fail either through bankruptcy or revolt.
America is great and I believe in American exceptionalism. It doesn’t mean I have to think we are perfect and have never made mistakes. Of course we have. A lot of people died in Vietnam while we were there, and after we left, they slaughtered over two million of their own people. Thank you politicians and stupid protesters who didn’t know what they were talking about.
I don’t really care if other countries think we’re great or not. We have taken sides in various issues, as have they, but in the end, when you’re facing unbridled corruption, there isn’t much you can do. A lot of it is just used as an excuse to do what the governments would have done anyway and we were a convenient excuse. Look at Chavez – he invokes supposed USA involvement in all sorts of things so he can then crack down or take over yet another sector of the economy. Amazingly, before every election, the CIA mounts assassination plots against him that he uses to shut down opposition.
So, you think that you can go to a socialist or communist country and you won’t find children going to bed hungry, or people dying because they got sick? Give me a break. There is no way, especially in a country as large as ours, that you can catch everyone who needs help. It is sad, but it’s always going to happen no matter how much money you throw at it, how many laws you pass, or anything else. The majority of our poor are the richest poor people in the world. I know people who complain because they don’t have health insurance, but they have three late-model cars, a boat, big screen TV’s, smoke, drink, go on vacations, etc. A large number of the people who claim they can’t afford things are actually saying they aren’t willing to sacrifice their goodies for health care or other things. Gotta have the cable or satellite, but I have to pay for their health insurance.
May 8th, 2010 on 4:12 pm
I want to send home anyone who comes here illegally regardless of their race or country of origin. That is not “racist” or bigoted.
It certainly is “bigoted” and only technically not “racist” – it is “nativist”.
I don’t think New Mexico is quaking in it’s boots – I think it is welcoming hard working and tax paying Hispanics who will help their economy grow while Arizona’s goes into the toilet.
May 9th, 2010 on 12:15 am
No, you are absolutely wrong in this. If it was bigoted, then we would want to send every Hispanic person out of the country whether they were here legally or not because the motivation would be hatred of Hispanics, not desire for our laws to be recognized, obeyed and upheld. It is in no way remotely racist because we aren’t asking for illegal immigrants to to be sent back home because we feel their racially inferior. I welcome anyone to the USA if they arrive legally, and I don’t care one bit what color or race they are.
It isn’t nativist either because nobody is saying there is any preference for Americans over any other people. The whole differentiation is based strictly on if the person followed the law and is here in the country legally. No matter which of the above words you try and apply here, when you look at SB1070, there is no way you can honestly apply any of them. If you do you’re either being intentionally disingenuous or too intellectually lazy to read the law for yourself. Or, if you’re a politician, then you are pandering in the hope of garnering more votes.
If other states are willing to accept people who are here illegally, that is their problem, and it will become one. And, shame on any state who welcomes people in who are criminals and are willingly violating the law of the land. They are putting the desires and protection of criminals ahead of the legal citizens of this country and they should be sanctioned for it. Once people feel they are free to decide for themselves which laws to obey and which to ignore, you’ve begun the slide to anarchy. Would you approve a law that said that a particular city would be a sanctuary for bank robbers, or rapists, or any other crime that is committed? Why the people who never accept this sort of behavior for any other crime against the country, others, or themselves suddenly decide that the sovereignty of our country doesn’t need to be protected is beyond me.
May 9th, 2010 on 12:34 am
If it was bigoted, then we would want to send every Hispanic person out of the country whether they were here legally or n…
No that would be “racist” which I e xlained this wasn’t technically. “Bigoted” is non-specific – being prejudiced against any group – in your case “illegals”.
Once people feel they are free to decide for themselves which laws to obey and which to ignore, you’ve begun the slide to anarchy
People always decide for themselves which laws to obey and which ones not to – “legal” and “moral” are not the same thing and we frequently honor those who defied unjust laws.
Personally I have been “illegal” for almost all of my life – just because something is a “law” doesn’t convince me that it is moral, and it shouldn’t convince anyone.
May 9th, 2010 on 3:19 am
No, you don’t understand the meaning of the words, despite my defining them in the post you’re responding to again. So, to try and educate you:
A Racist is someone who thinks that simply being a member of their race makes them superior to other races. If it’s a white person, he may be a high school dropout working for minimum wage, but he feels simply being white means he is superior to a black or Hispanic person who is a college graduate and earns a six-figure salary. A white racist can be friends with a black person, do business with a Hispanic person, even go to their house for a BBQ, but he feels he is superior to them simply because he is white. Racism doesn’t mean the racist has to hate people of another race. So, the bill is not in anyway racist because it contains nothing that indicates superiority of one race over another.
A Bigot is someone how has hatred or intolerance for another based upon their race or belief. The KKK were racists and bigots. The bill is not bigoted because it has no basis in hatred or intolerance for Hispanics based on their race. There are no provisions for removing someone from the country because they aren’t white or any other race. The delineation is strictly based on whether someone is here legally or illegally. Wanting criminals to be found and face the consequences of their crimes is neither prejudiced or bigoted unless the bill said to punish Hispanics for being here illegally, but if someone is white, let them stay. If you are here illegally, you are a criminal just as someone who robbed a bank or broke into a home is a criminal. Would you think it was OK for someone to break into your home and steal its contents because they were trying to make a better life for themselves, or would you call the police and ask for that person to be caught and your property returned? Why do you think it is OK for the same thing to happen to our country?
Yes, individuals can and do decide whether or not to obey the laws, but if they choose to break a law, they have to pay the consequence for that decision. You are correct… legal and moral are not the same thing, but clamping down on illegal immigration is both legal and moral. The law states you have to follow certain procedures to obtain entry into our country, therefore it is legal to apprehend and deport illegal aliens. Every country, including Mexico, has the right to restrict who comes into their country or not. Mexico defends its Southern border vigorously – it’s only their Northern border they want to be porous and open. The USA is a sovereign nation and has the right to decide who may enter and who may not. It would be immoral if the law said that nobody of Hispanic decent was allowed into the country, but it does not.
If you are here illegally, I don’t blame you for wanting to be here in the greatest country in the world. But, I still hope you are caught and returned home as you should be. It isn’t because you (most likely) aren’t white or anything else other than your very first interaction with my country was to thumb your nose at its laws and that is wrong.
May 9th, 2010 on 7:25 am
You are quite long-winded, TM. I think tiponeil has a very good point that can’t be ignored: the mere passage of a law does not mean that a law is moral or just. There have been many laws repealed and overturned over time. The law is quite mutable and a very human construct, prone to incorporate our fallibility and prejudice.
I would add think I personally believe we have an obligation to fight laws we consider unjust. Don’t be too respectful of authority. Once you look past the trappings of authority, you find that it is just people; people whose shortcomings are no less blatant than anyone else’s.
May 9th, 2010 on 9:27 am
Hmmmm and I thought laws were in place to protect us. Lets use speeding as an example. If John Doe is speeding down the roadways he is most likely going to crash into an innocent person, either physically harming or killing them. Now, what about immigration laws? Immigration laws are put in place to limit how many people at one time can legally come into the U.S. to deter overpopulation, and to identify who is an undesirable (rapist, childmolester, murderers, drug dealers etc.) that we dont want being in the U.S. legally.The reasons for the immigration laws are in place as a protection of U.S. citizens. But as we can see, since the immigration laws are not being enforced and because of the overload of ILLEGAL immigrants, us U.S. citizens are in danger.We are in danger in so many ways, drug dealers, rapists, murderers, identity theft, loss of jobs for law abiding citizens, overload on our economy trying to support too many people, uninsured unlicensed drivers, and all the way down to illegals who hate the U.S. and feel that they can do whatever they want,break whatever laws they want, including take over a few U.S. states that they feel belong to them, and protest for their illegal immigration “rights”. YEP laws are in place to protect the legal U.S. citizen…NOT illegal immigrants! Our immigration laws are NOT unjust, they are NOT enforced!
May 9th, 2010 on 9:38 am
Hmmmm and I thought laws were in place to protect us.
A common misbelief. Mostly they are there to protect property and ensure that things like human rights and welfare don’t get in the way of making profit.
“…and all the way down to illegals who hate the U.S. and feel that they can do whatever they want,break whatever laws they want…”
“The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate.”
Your good friend Adolph would have been proud.
May 10th, 2010 on 2:26 am
Thank you.
I agree with tiponeill that mere passage of a law doesn’t meant it’s just. Look at the Jim Crow laws, etc. I’m talking about SB1070 here which is being misconstrued to be something it is not. There’s a big difference between passing laws that oppress or grind down someone based on their race or color, and it’s another thing to pass a law that is simply trying to halt a problem with people ignoring the sovereignty of your country and are here illegally. Since it isn’t specifically targeting someone based on their race or color but only if they are here legally or not, it is disingenuous to try and compare the two. If SB1070 was saying to round up all Hispanics and send them back to Mexico, or to give police the power to pull over anyone who looks Mexican, I’d be on the other side of the debate as well. But, it’s not and it won’t be no matter how you try and misrepresent it.
May 9th, 2010 on 10:01 am
A Bigot is someone how has hatred or intolerance for another based upon their race or belief.
Your “education” is lacking – a bigots is someone who has intolerance for ANY identifiable group (gay, “illegal”, etc). Defending this bigoted law based upon it not being technically targeting “race” is an argument which only appeals to it’s supporters - the rest of the world knows better.
therefore it is legal to apprehend and deport illegal aliens
True, as is defending borders, targeting drug dealers etc, which ICE and the Feds do without any protest. That is not what this law does or it’s purpose, thus the protests.It targets on identifiable group (“illegals”) living peacefully among us for years, many of whom arrived as children, and targets them for harassment and deportation and attempts to chase them out of the state. It creates a second-class population that can be scapegoated and persecuted.
I still hope you are caught and returned home as you should be. It isn’t because you (most likely) aren’t white or anything else other than your very first interaction with my country was to thumb your nose at its laws and that is wrong.
How morally righteous of you – you being of the “law abiding” class, having had the great foresight of choosing the right parents and being born on the right side of the border. I’m sure that is what all of the moral teachers (Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, MLK ….) taught.
May 9th, 2010 on 10:28 pm
do you do your routines at any of the local comedy clubs or is your stand up restricted to blogs?
if you are appearing at any of the local AZ clubs let me know. i can always use a good laugh just like the on i had reading your response.
May 10th, 2010 on 2:43 am
Merriam Webster: “Bigot – : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”
I don’t hate illegals. I feel sorry for them living in a country like Mexico that is so corrupt and poor. Any intolerance I feel for them has nothing to do with their race, only with them being criminals who don’t expect to face any consequences for their crimes. I’m not asking they have the crap beaten out of them and then thrown across the border. I would expect them to be treated fairly and without abuse. Your stupid comment at the end of your post saying, “How morally righteous of you – you being of the “law abiding” class, having had the great foresight of choosing the right parents and being born on the right side of the border.” has nothing to do with this issue. Yes, I was lucky to be born North of the border. If I was unlucky enough to be born South of the border wouldn’t give me the right to ignore the law of a sovereign nation and just sneak across and expect to live however I want and demand the same rights as a citizen.
Again, what you, and people like you, are doing is misrepresenting the law. The law would be racist or bigoted if it said that police could pull someone over for no other reason than they looked Hispanic and they wanted to check their legal status. But, no matter how many times you repeat the lie, it doesn’t say that. The only time police can check the legal status of someone is if there has already been a legal contact between the police and the person for another reason such as a traffic stop or another crime. That is not bigoted. I was in Italy and got stopped and the cop made me show my passport and proof I was in the country legally before he let me go. I have to do the same thing when I go into Mexico. I don’t complain about it because it isn’t my country and they have a right to know if I’m there legally or not.
The whole reason for the AZ law is that the federal government ISN’T doing their job defending the border which is why there are so many illegal aliens here. If they were doing their job there would have been no reason for SB1070.
And, thank-you. Yes, I am of the law-abiding class rather than being a criminal. If I break the law, I will pay the penalty, as should anyone who does so.
May 9th, 2010 on 12:51 am
I lived in a border town most my life. I’ve had two vehicles stolen by illegals, to run more illegals into my country. I was rear-ended by a man with a prosthetic right leg while I was sitting in a fast food drive through. The employees of the restaurant were translating and told me he was illegal. When I got out of the drive through the man drove off, never to be seen again, except by the doctors treating his leg and what appeared to be recent surgery on his abdomen. A co-worker had his truck stolen. A week later it was found in the desert spray-painted black with black tarp bungeed to holes drilled all throughout the body. The border agents said the drug runners darken the trucks as much as possible and run without lights, with night-vision goggles through the desert to drop the drugs off. This open border insanity must stop and everyone who is here illegal needs to be deported immediately. These are not desperate people just looking to make a better life for themselves. . They are extremely selfish foreigners with no regard for this country’s laws or its citizens.
May 9th, 2010 on 1:02 am
This open border insanity must stop and everyone who is here illegal needs to be deported immediately.
That is a compound sentence A AND B. The border definitely needs to be fixed (A) but (B) does not logically follow.
What you are doing is attacking peaceful productive families who have lived here for decades because they racially resemble border criminals.
May 9th, 2010 on 6:59 am
first of all there will always be pros and cons to 107o. i for one support the new law. if your illegal, your just that. no matter where one comes from. the law is not racist, nor does it racially profile. it just happens to be that most of the illegals are hispanic/latin0/mexican, thats not our fault. theres just more of them then anyone. the roman catholic church instills its ok to breed like rats. its about time we did something. this is our god dam country, i’m not going to conform to anyone elses language or culture. mexican or otherwise. maybe liberal democrats like rep. sinema, leftfield, al sharpton, and a whole host of illegals, who dont give a crap about our country, just what they can get out of us for free, can march through phoenix, while we throw tortillas at them. i’ll be eating my american cheeseburger and watching. the law is long overdue. god bless america and americans.
May 9th, 2010 on 7:32 am
BTW, egren-I am not a “liberal democrat”. I am a communist and a Guevarista to boot. I’d slow down on the cheeseburgers. Don’t you know American food will kill you?
May 10th, 2010 on 2:49 am
Ah, yes, the form of government that has proven a failure everywhere it’s tried and responsible for more of the ills that you rail against America about than we’ve ever done. We’ve seen how well your philosophy works and how awesome the lives of people under communism are. I lived with a woman for five years who was from Russia, and she told me how wonderful her life was over there. I’m sure she would be thrilled to help you make the USA more like Russia. You should move there. You’d have fun.
May 11th, 2010 on 3:58 pm
Perhaps you should move to Cuba then,so that they can benefit from all your communist ideas. This is AMERICA-a Republic, not a dictatorship,although I think the Socialists running the government now would love to change that. If you are here ILLEGALLY,that’s a crime. Don’t matter what country you come from. No where in the world can illegal immigrants be afforded citizenship rights just by walking a few miles.
BTW-after the Civil War, it was the DEMOCRATS who wanted the status quo kept like it was,not the Republicans.
May 9th, 2010 on 7:18 am
oh, i forgot to add: i am hispanic. my parents came here from cuba fifty years ago. they were so proud to become americans. they photographed their citizenship swearing in. they tried real hard and learned the english language. today we cater to the spanish speaking people by printing everything in spanish. they did not do that for my parents. they worked hard and learned the english language on their own, because they wanted to and had a desire. they were proud to be americans. no one should ever forget their heritage. but being an american comes first. at least one should try to assimilate. illegals dont. they want money, free healthcare, free education for their illegally born children and to remain anonymous. there are steps to take to be a LAWFUL citizen. they apply to ALL. being an american and enjoying freedom is not free. just ask any veteran. the law is just. its time to take back OUR county. the country my parents were proud of.
May 9th, 2010 on 7:33 am
Batista would have been so proud.
May 10th, 2010 on 2:46 am
Who cares what Batista thinks, or Crappo Castro for that matter.
May 9th, 2010 on 10:59 am
who knows, i might have been born in cuba had it not been for the communists and fidel. my parents left cuba before the revolution, they were allowed to freely travel or leave unlike today in cuba with the castro family at the helm. at least batista let his people practice free enterprise and profit from its relation with the united states. with a kickback of course. sounds like our goverment. dont you know communism doesnt work! everybody wants to be a capitalist american. even illegals.
May 9th, 2010 on 3:26 pm
let his people practice free enterprise and profit from its relation with the united states. with a kickback of course.
You are correct, if you were one of Batista’s people, you were pretty well set. The rest of the Cuban people didn’t have it so good and they supported the revolution. Of course the US is always happy to support a right-wing dictator so long as he is willing to serve his masters.
May 10th, 2010 on 2:52 am
And look how much better the Cuban people’s lives are under Castro now! Communism has been such a huge leap forward for them. The gap between Batista’s people and the average system just got a hundred times larger! Communism is so wonderful! Yay! I’m sure if the people had known what was ahead of them if Castro won and communism ruled, there is no way they would have supported that revolution. Proof that sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
May 9th, 2010 on 11:03 am
I’d slow down on the cheeseburgers. Don’t you know American food will kill you?
Actually Hamburgers are German, named after Hamburg.
Sieg Heil Mickey D
May 9th, 2010 on 9:05 pm
The illegal entrant is a victim of brutal behavior on a daily basis. The sooner they are identified and removed from the conditions they are forced into by the cartels and the coyotes, the better. The illegal entrants life depends on border security.
http://azstarnet.com/news/state-and-regional/article_f336f7d0-3a4c-5db8-97ff-55655a2d1521.html
May 10th, 2010 on 2:11 pm
Hilarous that her response, which criticizes Rep. Allen’s use of citations, has no citations of her own. Where is her bibliography or reference sheet?
May 11th, 2010 on 11:04 am
I find this entire string of comments to be hilarious. There’s no use in arguing with the likes of leftfield and the other liberal socialist communist participants who are simply unable to discuss anything with anyone who doesn’t agree with them. They’re crying over their spilled milk because they didn’t get their way in AZ. Fact of the matter is that AZ has a new law whether anyone likes it or not, and ARIZONIANS are going to try and take matters into their own hands to stop the insanity. I applaud them. I certainly hope that the new law survives the constitutional challenges that will undoubtedly come from our leftist friends.
My home state of South Carolina has a draft of a law that is similar to AZ’s, and we are also starting to crack down on small businesses who hire illegals. A dozen other states are considering doing the same thing, and that’s what will finally drive a solution. I heard one comment from a Californian who was worried that AZ’s crackdown would direct more illegals into CA and further swamp their economically devastated state. Somehow that struck me as very funny. Here’s a wild idea … maybe CA needs the same law.
I will echo the comments of several people here about the “papers” which is such a big cause for concern. I used to travel a good bit, and when I was overseas or in Canada, I always had my “papers” with me (passport and/or work visa). It’s really not that much to ask. I would never have dreamed of being in another country without them, period. I had a Columbian friend and coworker with a green card who worked for about 6 years to become a U.S. citizen. I helped him with letters and phone calls, and he finally achieved his dream. He’s pissed that some people who sneaked in might get citizenship because of amnesty. It’s not right, and that’s all there is to it.
One last thing I will say is that President Obama may be doing a great service for the United States of America, a deed which will probably be recognized by future historians. He has transformed the “progressive” movement from the slow, creeping liberalism of the past 100 years into a Niagara Falls sized torrent of changes. I believe that he is awakening a sleeping giant of independents, libertarians, tea party’s, patriots, and middle of the roaders. The democrats, liberals, socialists, and “progressives” are starting to get a little worried. You can tell because they ridicule and name call anyone who questions their ideals and their motives. Let’s make them eat their words by speaking in the 2010 and 2012 elections, and then let’s start to take our country back. Throw out all the bums in November. It’s already begun – then we’ll see if anyone is still laughing at us.
May 15th, 2010 on 8:13 am
Great post SCJack and as a Californian I am ashamed to see what little action has been taken here to support 1070. Los Angeles’ stupid City Council has instituted a ban on contracting with and traveling to Arizona as a penalty for trying to save their state from what California has become. Idiots!
May 11th, 2010 on 11:16 am
My home state of South Carolina…..
‘Nuff said.Everyone know the Confederacy’s stance on racism.
May 11th, 2010 on 3:37 pm
If this is about racial profiling, then profile away! I am tired of being the only person profiled by the likes of the left or minorities who do not seem to “get it”!
Constitutional or not, it is the law – both federal and state. The federal government, in its lethargy (or laziness?) has done little to actually carry out its function – to protect the citizens from invasion!
For now, those who contend the law is “unconstitutional” are dead wrong! To be deemed unconstitutional, some decision would have to be made by the Supreme Court in some challenge set forth in some legitimate venue. Instead, all we have is a bunch of know-nothing whiners, who complain about the unconstitutionality of the law when they scarcely understand the plain language of the Constitution.
The Constitution of the United States is just that – the Constitution of the UNITED STATES! Not the EU, not the former USSR, not the United States of Mexico. Its protections were meant to serve those who live under its it auspices, not those who pine for the day they can cross the river and show up here, hands out expecting a “goody bag”.
I spent a chunk of my life in harm’s way in the service of this Great Nation and do not care for the notion that the liberals have the right or duty to give away what I fought to defend. You want to give away your land, then give to someone more deserving, someone without a home who lived here all their life and are down on their luck. Maybe give it to a homeless veteran. I know they deserve and am pretty sure they would appreciate it.
So profile away! Do what must be done to keep out the undesirable elements that can’t follow the rules.
BTW, if you don’t care for that law, then you are welcome to leave the country, but take with you, two illegals who don’t belong any more than you.
May 13th, 2010 on 10:12 am
You all crack me up. But I’m not finding any humor in 1070 or Sen Allen’s email. Being a business owner reliant on tourism I have to look at this for its benefits and ramifications. As a conservative I would love to agree with my constituents. If you have read Sen Allen’s email and were honest with yourself you would have wonder what her points have to do with price of tea in China. Sen Sinema is spot on with her comment
Sen. Allen failed to explain anything about SB 1070 because it doesn’t solve any of the problems she listed in her e-mail, namely crime and violence along the border.
If fact Allen sounds like a blubbering idiot. She’s an embarrasment to her (my) party if that is her logic for voting for the bill. It frightens me that there are elected officials in state government that can’t articulate their reasoning for actions. It exposes her lack of intelligence.
This bill does nothing to stop the inflow of illegals into our state or country. If we are deporting more illegals as a result of the law it may be more damaging to some of the reasons she cites -namely trashing the desert- because many of those deported will come back.
Illegal immigration is a complex problem. Border security is paramount but TM’s assertion that we should do many things is correct. But 1070 doesn’t accomplish anything positive. I think you are naive or not honest if you really believe its not profiling but it doesn’t really matter what you believe. If the bill accomplishes little or nothing then what matters is the ramifications to our state. The state is broke. If public perception is we are racist/bigoted (semantics TM) and our tourism industry suffers as a result we shouldn’t do it. 15 years ago we lost hundreds of millions as a result of our MLK debacle and its happening again. Tourism is our biggest industry in AZ and we should do whatever we can to promote it. Illegal immigration is a serious problem. I’ve seen the trash laden desert along the border and its a travesty and I’m angry about it. But this is just another dagger in the heart of the state economy. I’m sick of politicians who who use emotionally charged issues for political gain. And that’s what this is bill is really about.
May 14th, 2010 on 5:38 am
Sinema has the IQ of a fence post!
May 15th, 2010 on 8:07 am
Couldn’t agree with you more Joe. Saw her this morning on C-SPAN explaining her position on 1070 – I was appalled that this woman is supposed to be a lawyer and apparently doesn’t believe it is against the law to enter this country illegallly! I’m a native Californian and appalled at what unchecked illegal immigration has done here – failing public schools, overwhelmed social service systems, once peaceful single family neighborhoods turned into crime ridden enchlaves of boarding houses for illegals and the list could go on and on. I was raised in the San Fernando Valley and wouldn’t dare drive into some of those areas now – looks just like Tijuana! Thank you Governor Brewer for doing something that has been long overdue. And I sincerely hope that Ms. Sinema NEVER is elected to any public office again!
May 17th, 2010 on 1:00 pm
leftfield is a bigot. Please put your own white guilt aside so you can see the truth. The parallels you TRY to draw between this issue and Nazi Germany exist only in your own guilty imagination. Legal immigration is not a problem. Anything illegal is a problem including illegal immigration. Also, through all your inane ranting, I don’t believe I ever read your sollution. Do you have one? With all the posts you have written against this issue I would like to think that you have a better idea. Or are you just another part of the problem?
May 17th, 2010 on 1:04 pm
leftfield is a bigot
You might actually have a point here, Wilson. Not about the obvious parallels between the words of Hitler and the words of the nativists, though. But, it is true: I am absolutely intolerant of right wing wackos. I suppose you would consider me a part of the problem, as I and people like me are all that stands between you and your fantasies.
May 18th, 2010 on 12:04 pm
First of all, racial profiling can occur now. It’s not something that will happen as a result of this bill. In fact, more onus will be on the officer to show that he didn’t profile.
Second, State law does not superseded Federal law. It simply enforces it.
Third, what planet are you living on? It’s already to crime to be in the country illegally. That’s where the word “illegal” comes from.
I’m also not clear why you think it’s going to pull resources away? It seems pretty simple to me. It’s part of a routine traffic stop, or other suspicion of wrong-doing, that is the officer’s primary concern. This is something that results secondarily to that concern.
I’m guessing that all the monies paid as a result of them being here will more than compensate for any additional resources required.
I’ve read the whole bill (unlike our US Attorney General). My degrees are in Journalism and Public Administration, so I know how to investigate and read laws & regs.
It’s totally unfair to the people who wait years to legally immigrate when we allow others to be here illegally. There are system in place and there are reasons for those systems. If we need a different system, then let’s pursue that honestly and openly. But enough of this nonsense. The hate-mongers and emotional hijackers need to back off.
Frankly, I can’t see what all the fuss is about.
May 18th, 2010 on 1:19 pm
I’m not sure what’s wrong with you people that keep demeaning Kyrsten with the hot babe comments.
If you took the time to do some research on her, you’d see that beyond that picture at the top of the page, she’s as big as a house, I mean huge, so unless you “hot babe” guys like really fat girls, you’re way off base.
She’s also a nutjob and a poor excuse for a lawyer. Read any of the latest 1070 items she’s chimed in on, they’re full of “probably’s” and “could happen’s”… stick to the facts Krys.
And, did any of you catch the whole Hannity border crossing spectacle? She tried to have a talk show host arrested because he stepped through a border fence and returned “illegally”. It’s a thin line (about three feet apparently) between a clever political stunt and self inflicted retardation.
How does somebody this stupid become “assistant anything” beyond manager of a Filibertos morning shift?
May 18th, 2010 on 6:21 pm
It’s funny…well…not really. This lady accuses the other senator of littering her email with statistics that weren’t cited and statements that weren’t founded.
Well…this lady does the same thing. Kinda silly. It seems like she is just reacting so that her liberal electorate don’t think she’s a lame duck on the issue. I agree that the first ladies email didn’t comprehensively explain the law, but this ladies summary of the bill is nothing short of reactionary.
In her closing statement, she says, ”
We need a uniform system that secures our borders, requires those who are here to become legal, and puts in place a policy going forward to deal with the root causes of illegal immigration.”
Really? Is this lady for real? She talks about cost being an issue and saying that AZ doesn’t have the money to pay for this law…then she says we need a policy that forces people to become citizens. Can you imagine the cost involved to get even a willing group of people to become citizens that is that big? Not to mention the fact that it’s silly to assume that most or all of them would even want to become citizens. Then they’d have to pay taxes.
Later she says, “It’s time to get to work and deal with the real immigration problems in Arizona. SB 1070 fails to do any of that.”
She claims that we need to deal with the real immigration problems…that we need to deal with the real cause of immigration. Well…the real cause is that there is not enough resistance experienced by these intruders. They feel that they can just waltz through our lands and take what they want…and apparently they are right…because fools like this representative are too caught up in the paradigm of republicans vs. democrats that she can’t clearly see a solution that is right in front of her. IF one of her friends came up with the same bill, she’d probably support it.
Anyway, pretty sad to see a weak sauce reply like this. But what else do we expect from the liberals?