When will they come for you?
by Hugh Holub on May. 15, 2010, under border issues, politics“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
—Martin Niemöller
This is on a wall in the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC. You encounter this message after you have taken a journey through time from the rise of anti-Semetism to the horror of the `1930’s and the first half of the 1940’s in Europe.
The last thing you see is a “wall of rememberance” of those who stood up for the Jews in Nazi Germany. There aren’t that many names.
When I visited the Holocaust Museum 11 years ago, I was with a representative of the Mexican Embassy. I am Jewish. As we walked through the Museum, there was a constant voice asking…”substitute illegal alien for Jew and ask yourself where your country is going?”
Ask yourself, why are so many people standing up today against SB 1070…the Arizona law that allows local police to ask for proof of the right to be in the United States and which invites racial profiling.
Where are we going to end up creating a demonization of Mexicans and “illegal immigrants”?
Really bad stuff often starts innocuously. People think…well…that’s ok. Then the heat is ratcheted up…and that’s ok….but it accumulates.
And don’t forget that National Socialist political party exploited hatred of Jews to take power in Germany.
“…and they came for the illegal aliens and I didn’t speak up because I was a US citizen.”
Don’t doubt for a second you could be next if some politician or political movement can gain votes at your expense.
May 15th, 2010 on 8:54 am
Hey Hugh: OK, let’s substitute bank robber and bank customer in your little analogy. The key word here is ‘illegal.’ Are you in the bank doing something illegal . . . or just minding your own business?
Are you a Jew in Germany legally, or when they came for you . . . were you an illegal immigrant, and was deported as per the law of the land?
BTW, On my grandmother Hilser’s (nee: Stern) side of the family, we lost many people to Hitler’s madness.
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
May 15th, 2010 on 9:46 am
There were many things illegal about being Jewish in Nazi Germany at the time. Besides, this was the defense of many Nazis: “What I did was not illegal”. The history of American law is filled with statutes that were immoral and unjust; SB1070 is another example.
Hitler was aided in planning the holocaust because so few were willing to speak against it. We’re not making that mistake again.
May 15th, 2010 on 9:23 am
E.O. 9066 (signed on 2/19/42) that “excluded” people from the West Coast was neutral on its face, but only applied to my people, the Japanese Americans, by our American government. Most of those people who were taken away into internment camps were U. S. Citizens and lawful permanent residents, not illegal immigrants. But I don’t doubt that our government could round up people again under the guise of national defense or homeland security. (By the way Hugh, you have a typo: should be “innocuously”).
May 15th, 2010 on 9:45 am
Carolyn: The point exactly. The Taniguchi family in Salinas were clients and friends and told their story…they had farms and everything, were interned, their lands stolen…
“For to be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.”
Nelson Mandela
May 15th, 2010 on 2:21 pm
I think America has learned a lot from the mistakes it made with Japanese-Americans in World War II. I think modern-day Americans, and the government they elect, deserve at least a wee bit of the benefit of the doubt that they’ve learned from the past and won’t repeat past mistakes.
May 16th, 2010 on 8:22 pm
Let us not forget that it wasn’t until April of 1942 after the Bataan Death March that we implemented the Japanese relocation program. Let us not forget the reason we boycotted Japan that led to their attack of Peral Harbor was Japans invasion of Nanking, known as the “Rape of Nanking”. 100,000 dead, babies torn from the wombs of women, children tossed in the air and impaled by Japanese bayonettes. Our treatment of the Nisei was humane compared to the Japanese treatment of the Chinese, the Filipinos, and the American soldiers in their camps.
I shed not one tear for the Nisei.
May 17th, 2010 on 7:31 am
So, you’re defending the relocation, the imprisonment and the confiscation of the lands and property of American citizens based only on their racial make-up?
May 18th, 2010 on 6:30 am
Those 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry who were interned on U.S. soil during WWII were Issei (1st generation), Nisei (2nd), and Sansei (3rd) as well, 2/3 being born in the U.S. and the others were lawful permanent residents. None were ever found guilty of any crime of treason or sabotage. Because the enemy happened to be from Japan did not justify the taking away of civil rights of those Americans who were innocent– but looked like the enemy. It would mean guilt by ethnic/racial similarity alone. And why weren’t the thousands of Italian Americans and German Americans living in America interned as well? We were already fighting the war in Europe by the time Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and the signing of E.O. 9066.
May 18th, 2010 on 7:42 am
Thousands of Germans were interred, They were german Bundt, They were camped in Texas. The Issei and Nisei and Sansei, were free to leave the camp if they would sign a loyalty oath. Many left who joined the US military. It was a time of War, the Japanese had already made naval incursions into San Francisco Bay.
Sorry, but the Japanese that were interned were not misstreated. Shall we dig up the pictures of Bataan? Of Nanking?
It wasn’t just about looking it was about a culture that deified Hirohito and would not assimilate. If you are going to talk about the sins of America, do not deny the sins of Japan.
May 15th, 2010 on 10:44 am
Hey Hugh, When will the Rape Tree come for you? From your view from Baja, how many rape trees are there? 1070 is not Racist and does not promote Racial Profiling.
http://www.latina.com/lifestyle/news-politics/rape-trees-found-along-southern-us-border
May 16th, 2010 on 8:18 am
FrightNight: Interesting that you mention the Rape Trees. I’m working on a post about them. They are horrifyingly real.
The minute a societry dimishes other people, the door is opened for abuse and worse. SB 1070 is racist. Just put whoever you are in place of illegal alien and see how you’d see things then. And if you don’t think that can’t happen…there is way too much history in the world arguing otherwise.
May 16th, 2010 on 8:14 pm
Hugh, your very basic premise that our immigration laws or that SB1070 is somehow responsbile for the rape tree is sociopathic thinking at it’s worst. It is Mexico and Mexico’s systems that victimize their own people , not our laws. America is not the problem. The filthy scum coyotes and drug dealers are doing the rape, not America.
Just how long were you in the California Penal System that you learned this socipathic view of the world? Race and victimology are no basis for immigration policy.
May 16th, 2010 on 9:34 pm
America is not the problem.
Strictly speaking, predatory capitalism of the Milton Friedman variety is the problem, but for some time the two have been joined at the hip.
May 15th, 2010 on 11:05 am
The “Tucson Citizen” is sounding and looking a lot more like the Arizona Daily Star. More so in the past two weeks. You liberals just can’t stand it that we are tired of your same old manure. Ilegal immigration is good, legalizing dope is good etc.
May 15th, 2010 on 11:17 am
Ilegal immigration is good, legalizing dope is good etc.
And nuanced thinking is bad, human rights are bad, extreme nationalism is good, etc.
May 15th, 2010 on 11:48 am
human rights are bad
Since when does a communist have standing to talk about human rights? “Communist” = Gulag, psychiatric hospitals for dissidents, Prague Spring, etc…
May 16th, 2010 on 8:22 am
An interesting facet of what “America” is all about, enshrined in our Constitution, is the protection of difference…whether it be written, spoken, religious, race or whatever. Our Constitution was designed to protect against tyranny of a majority. We don’t have to agree with someone else’s political or religious view to protect the rights of people to hold those views.
http://www.helium.com/debates/106299-is-the-constitution-always-right
May 16th, 2010 on 8:01 pm
Assuming you’re responding to my response to Leftfield—where did I say he didn’t have the right to have his say? If you read that in my post, then you can read invisible ink.
I think it’s delicious to hear a communist talking about human rights, given communism’s unmistakablly atrocious human rights track record.
May 16th, 2010 on 9:45 pm
I’ll see your atrocious human rights track record and raise you a million dead Vietnamese. Every time a person dies of starvation or disease in the midst of plenty, it’s on you, Don. Every Iraqi refugee and every Mexican migrant, every murdered union organizer in Colombia, all the dead and displaced in New Orleans, every family evicted from their home, every person dying of AIDS in Africa; all on your free market tab, Don. Add them all up and see; maybe you do have bragging rights after all.
May 17th, 2010 on 7:56 am
While you’re at it, Left, why don’t you accuse me of being the second gunman on the grassy knoll?
I’ll keep capitalism and live in the real world. You can keep communism, and keep on living with a cartoon face and a fake name.
May 17th, 2010 on 9:52 am
While you’re at it, Left, why don’t you accuse me of being the second gunman on the grassy knoll?
Conspiracy theories are the province of the wacky right. You haven’t forgotten about the hammer and sickle on the Kennedy half dollar, have you?
You can keep communism, and keep on living with a cartoon face and a fake name.
Well, it is a “free country” isn’t it? I would have to believe in miracles to believe that a career military guy could, after a lifetime in that environment, come to any different conclusions than you have.
I am curious as to why my anonymity bothers my detractors so much? I mean, what difference would it make if you knew my name? I think to publicly declare my beliefs would be about the same as a Boy Scout leader in the 50′s publicly declare his homosexuality. It would be just simply stupid in the current environment. You wouldn’t want me to do that to my family, would you?
May 18th, 2010 on 8:45 am
Yes, yes I would. Publicly declaring who you are would speak to honesty. As long as you use an avatar and a pen name, you are cartoonish at your core. If you truly believe in your cause, then satnd up and defend it under your real identity.
May 17th, 2010 on 8:50 am
I readily acknowledge that horrible things have happened under capitalism. It is a far-from-imperfect system.
Neverthless, I prefer that Adam Smith’s invisible hand allocates resources in economies, instead of communism’s iron fist. Capitalism allocates resources based on the demands of the markets, in which we all participate. Socialism and communism allocate those resources by diktat, or leadership fiat. Which one is more efficient?
Socialism and communism also seem much more prone to breeding totalitarians.
As an Army lieutenant, I had the chance to visit East Berlin several times before the Wall came down. When you compared the drabness of East Berlin—supposedly a communist showcase city—-with the vibrance and life of West Berlin…well, there was no comparison.
I’ve seen communism up close, Left…no thanks. When you folks come out from behind your college podiums, cartoon faces and fake names and actually take the reins of goverment—-a whole lot of miserable things start to happen.
To be sure, there’s been plenty of misery under capitalism. Neverthless, I’ll take Adam Smith’s invisible hand over communism’s iron fist any day.
But, you could always prove me wrong. Take Mark up on his offer. Put down your cartoon face and your fake name and start your own blog. You take your best shot at convincing our readers that your way to govern is the best way, and I’ll take mine.
Or, you can continue sniping in anonymity.
May 17th, 2010 on 9:38 am
The point I would hope to make is that there is a marked tendency, nay, a universal prediliction, in this country to attribute all the crimes that occur or have occurred in socialist countries to the economic system itself, whereas the crimes occurring in non-socialist countries are never attributed in the same way to the system of capitalism.
Even the inevitable up and down cycles of capitalist economies, despite the fact that they occur regularly, are always treated by the government and the media as some kind of abberation rather than part and parcel of the system.
There are very few people calling themselves socialist who would consider the Soviet Union post-Lenin, China or even Cuba as socialist. We tend to refer to them as a form of State Capitalism.
I will continue to snipe in anonymity, thanks. I don’t trust the right. They are dangerous.
May 17th, 2010 on 9:20 pm
I don ’t trust the right. They are dangerous.
Left, I hate to burst your bubble, but I think you have very little reason to fear the oogedy-boogedy right. We all have better things to do.
May 16th, 2010 on 9:29 pm
I suppose have people like Noriega, Rove and Pinochet in your camp does give one a little bit of a sense of superiority. Capitalist = starvation, racism, endless war, imperialism, etc.
May 15th, 2010 on 11:26 am
If you think that letting 20 million illegal aliens is good and legalizing dope is good then you need to have your head examined. Name a country in the world where that is a good idea. Oh wait Mexico?!…. Ask the thousands of dead Mexicans, victims of the drug Cartels, ( not the workers for them) (they deserved to die). We live next to a failed country and a narco-democracy. But we know what you think.
May 15th, 2010 on 11:44 am
Hugh, besides that little paranoid voice in your head, how do you see SB 1070 leading to a 21st-century Nazi Germany in the USA? Can you lay out a rational, reasonable path for how your new Holocaust comes to pass?
Do you see a confederation of Minutemen and Tea Partiers overwhelming the federal courts? Do you see America electing Sherrif Joe as President, suspending the Constitution and giving him emergency dictatorial powers?
This strikes me as shallow, outright silly thinking. I find your lack of faith in your fellow countrymen and the way of life and governing we’ve built over 200+ years disappointing.
May 16th, 2010 on 8:32 am
Don, go down to the DeConini Port of Entry at the end of Terrace Avnue and try and take a picture of the port.
Or come sit in my front yard and watch the Black Helicopter circle you (yes they really exists…look up Raven).
And then visit the Rape Tree near Arivaca.
Or conemplate finding a Border Patrol vehicle blocking you in your driveway
…and don’t doubt for a second we could lose this glorious experiement in freedom due to fear of dissent.
Having been on the receiving end of a federal effort to silence dissent in the 1960′s (Cointelpro) …we thought we were just paranoid back then until we got our files under FOIA….
We’re already way down the road to losing it. The good news is a lot of people are standing up saying “enough”.
May 16th, 2010 on 8:51 pm
Hugh, I’m glad you and “a lot of people” are on the lookout for the impending Second Holocaust. You folks down in Baja Arizona have sharper eyes than I do.
For example, I presumed the Border Patrol doesn’t want the DeConcini Port of Entry photographed for security reasons. Silly me.
Next, I think it’s plausible that, if the Border Patrol IS blocking in your car, perhaps it’s because they’re being jerks, or they think you are.
Finally, I read your article on the Black Helicopter and Raven—and they didn’t sound like an airborne version of the SA to me. They sounded like National Guardsmen and Border Patrol agents doing their jobs.
I’m glad to see that you’re on the lookout for The Man. Please alert us when you see him. Thanks
May 17th, 2010 on 8:43 am
Hugh, I heard that if you make a hat out of tin foil, it will block their sensors and keep them from reading your mind.
Just trying to be helpful….
May 15th, 2010 on 12:25 pm
They, will come for me when They want my tax dollars for health care, or when they want my car stereo.
May 17th, 2010 on 9:13 am
It’s funny to me that you can repeatedly write the phrase “illegal alien”
and not see the “illegal” part.
The bill is not anti-immigration, the people of this country (generalizing here) are not anti-immigration.
How about this….DO IT LEGALLY.
Do that, and you will be welcomed.
May 17th, 2010 on 11:21 pm
“…and they came for the illegal aliens and I didn’t speak up because I was a US citizen.”
I would have to speak up and congratulate our law enforcement officers on doing a fine job. What is it about “illegal” and “U.S. Immigration Law” that you aren’t getting Hugh?
July 2nd, 2010 on 9:09 pm
Please get real. Most of the Jews placed in the German-operated work camps WERE illegal aliens. Or had been at some point. They were responsible for wrecking Germany after WWI, and for that war itself (among others).
There was no German program to exterminate Jews, other than criminals (terrorists, black marketeers and “partisans” etc. Many of those were undoubtedly executed, and rightfully so. No gas chambers for human use. Nada.
The only “Jewish holocaust” was the one the Jews themselves operated when the Jew-led marxist Soviets exterminated more than 20 million rightful inhabitants of Russian, the Ukraine, Latvia, Hungary, etc.
You can’t keep a lie alive forever, Hugh, even if your group owns the media, because you can only keep people ignorant; you can’t make them ignorant again once they learn the facts. Readers are invited to examine the other side/s of the story and make up your own minds. Don’t take the Jews at their word without studying or thinking. Sure, you are entitled to your opinions, but wouldn’t you rather know the Truth?
P.S. The United States should generally keep out of foreign entanglements, but you Jews have so tangled us in foreign entanglements that the only way to extricate ourselves is for the USA to take the lead in dismantling the pirate state of so-called Israel that now festers in Palestine. After that, the guilty Jews and others must be given due process and executed. Other Jews may be allowed to live someplace, if anyone will have them, but Judaism in all its forms must be recognized as a criminal organization or conspiracy masquerading as a religion. And banned. Those who circumcise their children must be tried as child mutilators. And executed. Expect this eventually, Hugh, because, it’s coming!
July 3rd, 2010 on 1:50 am
Why for Gods sake is this article up here from May!!! I just saw one of my comments from May 17th. Cant find anything to write about today about how good mexican illegals are for the USA. And the comparisons with the Holocaust are absurd. This “electronic” newspare/glorified blogsite is getting pretty wierd.
July 3rd, 2010 on 6:59 am
Why for Gods sake is this article up here from May!!!
To give the frasers among us time to catch up to the twenty-first century.
July 3rd, 2010 on 9:09 am
Really. The 21st Century..I am not the one with Karl Marx picture on this site. What’s that 19th Century… People like Marx and his followers (Stalin, Mao Tse Dung, Kim Il Sung, Lenin) have caused the deaths of hundreds of millions of people.
Marxism is on the crap pile of history. I know my history, I don’t think you do.
I can debate all sorts of issues with you, Social Security, jobs, Obama Health Care, whatever in a civil way. I just may even agree with you. Like the article the other day about the seperation of Church and State. (There should be a 30 foot wall between them). And you would be shocked just how liberal I am with religion, farther the left than 90% of the readers here.
But when it comes to the invasion of our country of 20 million peons, drug Cartels, illegal aliens, corruption in Mexico (and this country) the lack of a real war on drugs etc. we are very far apart.
Just dont insult me though. Maybe your pony tail and tie dyed t-shirt are too tight and your Birkenstocks are making you uncomfortable but just dont insult me. You sir are the one who thinks that Karl Marx was a cool guy.
July 3rd, 2010 on 10:02 am
Just dont insult me though.
You invite it, fraser. I mean, the things you say invite it.
Marxism on the c-pile of history? This is apparently a well-kept secret, unknown to the people of Latin America. Socialism is coming to a neighborhood near yours, fraser. You are seeing the end of the empire. Paraphrasing Che, being involved in two or three Vietnams would be the beginning of the end for the empire. It’s over, big guy.
July 3rd, 2010 on 10:14 am
So why don’t you go and live down there. Seems like you love it enough. As for me I will live here.
And I thought I was being nice by saying that we may agree on a few things. What a waste.
Pssst…guess what, Che is dead too. Love the pic of him laid out on the table ,don’t you.