What does “no amnesty” really mean?
by Hugh Holub on Jun. 08, 2010, under border issues, politics, SB 1070Part of the debate about what to do with the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country is that there should not be any amnesty for them.
Short of deporting 12 million people [1], how are we going to let them stay in the country without this looking like amnesty? There are some obvious answers.
First, in order to gain legal status to remain, those who overstayed their visas (about half the illegal aliens) or who crossed the border illegally would have to admit to the crime of doing this and pay a fine. How much a fine? Is a fine enough? If not, what is your option for punishment for the obvious law violation involved? Do you want them to serve some time in jail? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to incarcerate 12 million people? How many people would voluntarily turn themselves in if a fine were involved versus how many would step up if they faced jail time? If we are too punitive do we not just keep the status quo where there is more benefit to hide and try and stay here illegally?
Second, a solution being proposed suggests that those who violated the law should not be eligible for a citizenship track. Are you ok with that?
Third, what do you do about the children of illegal immigrants who were born here? Or who were brought into the US as young kids? Kick them out? Punish them for something their parents did? Pass some new draconian law like being suggested by state senator Russell Pearce that does not grant citizenship to those born of illegal parents?
What’s your position on the DREAM Act?
Do you begin to see the real problem?
The real problem is both the INS and the Border Patrol failed to stop illegal entry and to track down those who overstayed their visas. Shouldn’t we also punish those who failed their jobs and created this massive problem in the first place? Are you willing to give the federal officials who managed to create this mess amnesty?
The failure to define what “no amnesty” means in a way that recognizes we’re not going to kick 12 million people out of the country speaks volumes about unwillingness to find a real solution to the problem.
Interestingly, if one pursues a definition of “no amnesty” that does not reward illegal entry, and does not attempt to deport 12 million people, you might actually find a lot of Hispanics who did enter legally supporting the solution…eliminating any racist taint.
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[1] How do you deport 12 million people?
Some of the more rabid anti-immigrant folks want to deport the 12 million or so illegal aliens inside the country right now.
Think about this real seriously for a moment.
How do you round up 12 million people? First you’ve got to check everyone in the country for legal status. Can’t make any mistakes here as to who you kick out of the country.
Will every law enforcement officer in the country have to be deputized to check legality? Will SB 1070 need to be a national law?
Are we all going to have to show up somewhere to be certified as being legally here?
How many federal agents will have to be hired to pull this off? Another 100,000?
What’s the time frame for doing this? One year? Five years?
Assuming you can round up 100,000 people a day. How are you going to deport them? Fly them out of the country like the current “repatriation” effort of the Border Patrol? At 200 passengers per plane (standing room only) that’s 500 flights per day. Maybe only 10,000 people a day, and 50 flights. Where from” LA and New York? Where to? Country of origin?
Do we just do more of what’s being done now…catch them, drive them down to the border in Wackenhut buses,and boot them over the line? How many more agents and buses will be needed to make a dent in the 12 million population?
I suggest anyone arguing to deport the illegal aliens now in the country put forth their plan of how to do this and how much it would cost.
Finally, does anyone really think the American public would tolerate a mass deportation effort?
June 8th, 2010 on 7:04 am
Why hasn’t the Government and all of the so called Activists in this country put together a concise consensus from the Illegal’s themselves as to what they would be willing to sacrifice to settle this issue. Instead of just telling them what they are going to do get them involved in the process of solving the mess. It is going to take all involved to remedy it and I am sure that if the Illegal’s themselves had a greater input without fear of incrimination you might just be surprised at what they would be willing to voluntarily sacrifice to bring order to what is going on.
June 8th, 2010 on 7:35 am
Do you actully think they want to be a citizen? Foolish. They just want the benefits. They still have homes in Mexico and send money home. Just like the Europeans who came…No way. The more pressure we put on them the more will self deport.
If you love them so go with them.
June 8th, 2010 on 8:29 am
The illegals should be rounded up and deported. They came to this country, gambling that they would not get caught. The same as a bank robber weighs the benefits of easy money versus incarceration. I live near the Wackenhut bus yard, and there are easily 25 buses not being utilized at any one time. We are paying for the buses, lets use them. The cost of rounding up the illegals would be a one time cost. The cost of letting them remain is a never ending cycle of welfare. If we give them amnesty, then they will be allowed to sponser all there relatives to come here and further burden the welfare state. My wife is a legal immigrant from Mexico, and is now a Naturalized Legal Citizen. She paid all the fees, waited the appropriate times, and did the process the proper way. She is outraged by the illegals and the idea of amnesty. Amnesty is a slap in the face to all immigrants who did things the legal way. I believe amnesty has been granted twice before in my lifetime. It was suppose to be a one time only deal, but all we have done is allowed people who think they are above rules, hope. If they can just make it to our country, stay hidden long enough, then they too will become legal. As for the anchor babies, if their parents are deported, then they need to go with their parents. The children should not be used as leverage to keep the law breakers in this country. If Mexico is such a bad place to live, fix it. Why does the US support the corrupt government of Mexico? The core problem is Mexico is so bad that it’s population is deserting it by the millions. Fix the core problem and illegal immigration will fix it’s self.
June 8th, 2010 on 9:16 am
You are absolutely right. Mexico is in horrible condition because of the way people think. In Mexico status is all about money or your name. Which explains why a lot of people that were born in Mexico, not even Americans, but became legal are so outraged with the Illegals. As everyone can see it seems like any person that has power in Mexico uses it to their personal benefit. Therefore you can explain the actions of many legal Mexicans. Since they are legal now they feel the status of their life is superior to the one of illegals. America did not become what is by thinking like that. The reason why America is such a great and successful country is because it is the country that pays the less attention to names and realizes that in a small poor town the next Albert Einstein could be born. One last comment that people are right about, illegal is not a race. So quit making laws so gray and shady. If it is not a race how would you track these people. Make it a law for everyone of us to carry proof of citizenship. That would make it easier for cops and not racist.
June 8th, 2010 on 9:24 am
We can make the enviroment uncomfortable enough for the law breakers that many will self deport. We then can then focus on rounding up the ones that are holding out.
Mexico, Ireland, Sweden, I just don’t care. It is time you went home.
We will make Cesar Chavez proud
Si, se, puede…
June 8th, 2010 on 2:13 pm
Here are a few simple suggestions. Of course, it all rests with our Gov’t. They MUST actually enforce our immigration laws, no exceptions. If they refuse to do so, then any reform is meaningless.
There has to be zero tolerance for being illegal or overstaying a visa. Amnesty should never be offered again. Been there, done that – and it failed miserably. Why should millions of illegals be rewarded for committing crimes?
– First step is to close the Southern border completely for 5 years until we get a handle on illegal immigrants.
- Warn illegals to self-deport before we are forced to do it for them.
- The Feds MUST extend 287(g) to every PD nationwide. Make EVERY cop check immigration status for ANY interaction. This takes away the racial profiling element the illegals like to whine about
- Change the amendment concerning anchor babies so that it only applies to children of legal citizens
- E-Verify and SS# checks should be mandatory for every business.
- Any employer or CEO found with illegals shall be sent to jail, for 1 year for every illegal found. That should stop the hiring immediately.
- No welfare, food stamps, school lunches, housing or ANY benefit of any kind unless citizenship is verified.
- No tax refunds or credits to any non-citizen.
- Schools must check the status of all students.
- ER care ONLY in the case of a true life or death emergency. Once stable, they are released to gain their own follow up care.
- If you are in violation of immigration law, you MUST GO – along with any children who are not citizens. No exceptions.
As a compromise, I would make this exception to allow any illegal who are of the so-called ”good peoople just looking for a better life” category (LOL) to gain status if they can prove the following: at least 10 years in this country, show tax returns for each year, no criminal record, be cleared of medical issues and pass a drug test. They could gain legal status but not be entitled to any welfare or benefits for 10 years.
This situation is fixable if our Gov’t would strictly adhere to the above, we could get a handle on this immense problem. But of course, our politicians won’t do a thing to work out this solution since they are spineless and PC. They pander and do what is easy, not necessary. They are a part of the problem, not the solution.
June 9th, 2010 on 9:37 pm
America Rocks, my thoughts exactly!
June 10th, 2010 on 7:16 am
Let them DIE!!! You know you want it!!! We should line them up and you can walk down there and kill them one by one – but you would have to do it with a box cutter! How you long to see them suffer… how about we put them in rooms with cameras so you can watch them starve to death!! Wouldn’t it make you feel good every morning to wake up and see a few more dead? Maybe we should turn on the showers and fire the ovens!!! Genocide is what its all about. Nothing more. Is it really unreasonable to kill them all in the most painful way imaginable?
June 10th, 2010 on 7:28 am
What you been smokin’ today Tick? Sounds like your mule came through with his load.
June 10th, 2010 on 7:46 am
sar·casm
n.
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
June 10th, 2010 on 7:56 am
An old cowboy proverb….if you give a man a horse, a rope and a tree and he is so inclined, he’ll hang himself.
I have suggests the Citizen charge $1 per hostile comment and split the money with the targets.
June 10th, 2010 on 8:03 am
Rock on, brother. This isn’t the America of 1776 anymore. Just ask the 3,000 people who died in the Twin Towers.
Times change, and in order to help save our great country, if it takes showing proof of citizenship when stopped for probable cause, I will proudly comply.
Hell, I show I.D. when I fly, use a credit card, cash a check, even sign my son up for Little League. What’s the big deal here, I don’t get it?
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
June 9th, 2010 on 8:31 am
FEMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFy6YshX4E
June 10th, 2010 on 7:03 am
These people have no idea what it costs. I will bet that most of the anti hispanic’s are also pro death penalty as well, even though study after study show it does not deter crime in any way whatsoever and it costs ten times more for an execution than for life imprisonment.
We need a solution that treats the ‘illegals’ as human beings. As said above, they are not after citizenship, they just want to earn money to – OMG – feed their families. I say let them in. Our founding fathers – which the intolerant’s love to quote – wanted this to be a melting pot, no immigration restrictions except for criminals. Keeping them all out prevents any for of screening for criminals. Let them in at the border with valid documentation and you will find only criminals going through the desert and risking life and limb to enter, only criminals lacking any documentation.
12 million people is a small number compared to the 330 million citizens we already have <3%>. Considering how many of those are children, the employment impact is minimal at best! Give them permanent residential status. Let them work here and pay taxes here, but go home and apply properly if they really want to be citizens. Then they will contribute to society in a way that should satisfy the anti-hispanics, helping economically instead of costing money. But the people who are complaining about the supposed societal drain can only be satified with a magic wand used to make the brown people into English speaking Caucasians.
The costs are too great for any government to cover. We have much better things to do with those taxes than waste them on ‘gathering up’ brown people and shipping them out. How about we make the people who care foot the bill? Every month the federal government will hire one person for one month every $2000 donated to the cause. Let them put their money where their mouths are.
June 10th, 2010 on 7:53 am
To The Tick: One idea for covering the cost of a worker visa program and the required criminal background check is use the “enterprise fund” approach…the application fee must cover the costs. Considering folks are payting $2,000+ to coyotes, we have an idea what the market price is…so charge what the coyotes charge.
You are sharing good and positive thoughts. Please keep them coming in spite of the other stuff.
June 10th, 2010 on 8:00 am
The idea was to make the racists pay for the enforcement out of their own pockets
June 11th, 2010 on 8:42 am
The Tick calling those who disagree with him “racists” and “anti-hispanic”… are ”good, positive thoughts” ??? What does he call American hispanics who want the border secured and illegals sent back?? …Something charming, I’m sure.
June 11th, 2010 on 8:47 am
Based on the evidence shown at sites like http://www.borderinvasionpics.com it’s safe to say that 12 million, a number that has been used for years, is no longer accurate. Veteran BP agents will admit that the “1 in 4″ interdiction rate claimed by the government is baloney. 1 in 10… MAYBE.