Dept. of Justice denies gun claim about Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s death
by Hugh Holub on Feb. 08, 2011, under border issues, drug smuggling, politicsThis from the Arizona Republic:
Border shootout: Dept. of Justice denies gun claim
Feb. 8, 2011 01:11 PM
Associated PressThe U.S. Justice Department denies a claim that two guns sold in purchases sanctioned by federal firearms agents were later used in a shootout that left a Border Patrol agent dead near the Arizona-Mexico border.
Assistant U.S. Attorney General Ronald Weich says in a letter obtained Tuesday by the Associated Press that the claim is false. The letter was written to U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa.
Grassley has said he received information that appeared to partially corroborate the claim received by members of the Senate Judiciary Committee about the guns.
Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was waiting with other agents on Dec. 14 near the Arizona border city of Nogales when a shootout with bandits erupted. Terry died in the attack.
So….when is someone going to say which gun fired the bullet that killed Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry? And where did that gun come from?
Here is the letter from DOJ to Senator Grassley:
Translated…”Senator…go pound sand”.
Here are Senator Grassley’s letters.
Copy of DOJ Letter courtsey of Sipsey Street Irregulars
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February 8th, 2011 on 1:34 pm
Good news, the chocolate ration has been increased from 30 grams to 20 grams!!
February 10th, 2011 on 10:31 am
Awesome!
February 8th, 2011 on 4:31 pm
This case has been ongoing for quite sometime, arrests could have been made early on…. why not?
Was the FFL cooperating with the ATF on this long before the indctments came down? Prior to more purchases being made?
If you read the indictment the ATF must have known quite a but seeing as the indictment appears to indicate there was telephone surveillence on either the gunshop, the buyer, or both….BACK IN 2009!!
”…on January 25th, 2011, while the ATF was serving the “Avila Indictment” and preparing for the press conference to follow – Avila wasn’t even arrested in the big roundup. Why? Well, a simple Pacer search (the Federal Courts electronic document system / available to anyone via the internet) reveals that Jaime Avila Jr. was already in jail. The court records clearly show how Avila was arrested during the early morning (just after midnight) of Dec. 16th, 2010, by Phoenix ATF agents for lying on 4473’s. So why on Dec 15th, 2010 did ATF feel the need to rush out and arrest Avila, on a hurried criminal complaint (as opposed to the proper method of indictment) after knowing of his trafficking activities, watching him and his co-conspirators, listening to their phones, and investigating them for nearly the past 14 months? What happened on Dec. 15th, 2010?”
“15. Between September of 2009 and through December of 2010, defendants fraudulently and knowingly exported and sent firearms from the United States to Mexico contrary to the laws and regulations of the United States.”
“16. Between September of 2009 and through December of 2010, defendants fraudulently and knowingly received, concealed, bought, sold, and facilitated the transportation, concealment, and sale of firearms prior to exportation, knowing the firearms were intended for exportation contrary to the laws and regulations of the United States.”
36. On December 8, 2009, a male caller using a telephone number utilized by MANUEL FABIAN CELIS-ACOSTA called FFL Lone Wolf Trading Company, Glendale, Arizona, to inquire as to the number ofAK-47 type rifles in stock. Forty-five minutes after this call, on the morning of December 8, 2009, SEAN CHRISTOPHER STEWARD arrived at Lone Wolf and purchased twentyAK-47 type rifles which he transported to an auto auction business in Phoenix, Arizona, and loaded into another vehicle or vehicles.
37. On the evening of December 8, 2009, SEAN CHRISTOPHER STEWARD returned to Lone Wolf Trading Company and purchased an additional twenty AK-47 type rifles. SEAN CHRISTOPHER STEWARD loaded the rifles into a white Nissan Titan in which MANUEL FABIAN CELIS-ACOSTA was a passenger. This vehicle was driven to CELIS ACOSTA’s residence where the rifles were unloaded.”
“51. On or about August 19, 2010, JONATHANEARVIN FERNANDEZ purchased nine AK-47 type rifles from Lone Wolf Trading Company, and during the course of such purchase falsely represented on ATF Form 4473 that he was the actual purchaser of the firearms. After purchasing the firearms, FERNANDEZ and DANNY CRUZ MORONES, riding with FERNANDEZ, attempted to evade agents and officers conducting surveillance.”
February 8th, 2011 on 5:36 pm
“So….when is someone going to say which gun fired the bullet that killed Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry? And where did that gun come from?”
Hugh, we knew VERY quickly where Loughner’s gun was purchased from, there was no “ongoing investigation” excuse used to stonewall. Why?
As I have stated before, if the info you are requesting fits an agenda then it will be given freely, if the info release does not work to their advantage they will use “ongoing investigation” as long as they are able or until you quit asking…
February 8th, 2011 on 6:08 pm
“Grassley spokeswoman Beth Pellett Levine said the Justice Department denied one aspect of allegations presented by whistleblowers and promised to give the senator a briefing. “However, the briefing has still not occurred, and documents provided with the allegations are not consistent with that denial,” she said. “There are many specific questions that need to be answered in full by the Justice Department as soon as possible.”
February 9th, 2011 on 5:28 am
Thank you, Hugh, for shining a light on this scandal out in Arizona.
February 9th, 2011 on 7:13 am
Below is the latest from Sipseystreetirregulars, link in Hugh’s original article.
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Meanwhile, our sources within ATF confidently stood by the whistleblowers’ narrative and uniformly scoffed — some profanely and obscenely — at the DOJ letter’s fig leaf of the word “sanctioned,” comparing it to the Clintonian use of “sexual relations” or the definition of “what ‘is’ is.”
A long-time observer of DC in general and the ATF in particular had this reaction:
The letter is supposed to create layers of deniability and create a distraction via the insult mechanism (i.e., get you to react to and focus on the insult rather than salient facts or questions). I doubt Lanny Breuer is going to come near this. And the point about Melson not responding to the letter is more than telling; Melson may not have had a choice, consider that.
Some questions that occur to me, in no particular order of importance:
1. Has the gun used to murder Border Patrol agent Brian Terry been identified? If so, on what evidentiary basis, including ballistic evidence. If the gun has been identified, the two key questions: (A) has this gun ever been traced before? (B) if so, what do the traces show?
2. What are the locations in Mexico where “gunwalked” firearms were recovered?
3. Were any “gunwalked” firearms used to murder anybody in Mexico? If so, who? Again the Goat (Copulation) questions: (A) have any of these guns ever been traced before? (B) if so, what do the traces show?
4. Did Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer attend any meetings at which Project Gunrunner was discussed in full or in part? If so, provide (1) the date of the meeting or meetings, (2) names of all persons who attended each meeting or meetings, and (3) the unredacted write-ups of what was discussed at each meeting or meetings, as well as private, unpublished notes, e-mails and any other documents that contain information about each meeting or meetings.
[nota bene: I am making a distinction here between ATF and DOJ as institutions, in asking these questions]
5. For each of the 274 firearms recovered in Mexico, describe the extent, if any, to which Mexican authorities were advised these firearms had been transported to Mexico with the knowledge of ATF.
February 10th, 2011 on 12:07 am
Latest in SipseyStreetIrregulars…..
Now w/ ATF refuting their denial…
“It is already public record that federal agents arrested Jaime Avila on December 15, 2010—the very same day that CBP Agent Terry died. The ATF had been tracking Avila’s firearms purchases because Avila was a suspected trafficker since at least November 2009.1 According to the whistleblowers, at least one gun dealer wanted to stop participating in sales like those to Avila sometime around October 2009. However, the ATF allegedly encouraged the dealer to continue selling to suspected traffickers and asked the dealer to forward information about the sales to the Bureau. ”
“After the shooting of CBP Agent Terry, law enforcement officials recovered from the scene two assault rifles. On December 16, 2010, ATF’s trace results confirmed that serial numbers 1983AH3977 and 1971CZ3755 match two of the three rifles purchased by Avila and tracked by the ATF nearly a year earlier. In addition to these specific weapons, the indictment of Avila and others references approximately 769 firearms. Of those, the indictment refers to the recovery of only about 103 weapons. So, where are the other approximately 666 weapons referenced in the indictment? Why did the ATF not seize them? ”
“It’s hard to accept that our son was shot and murdered with a gun that was bought in the U.S. We have not had any contact from the Border Patrol or any other agents since returning home on the 22nd of [January]. Our calls are not returned. I truly feel that our son’s death is a cover-up and they hope that we will go away. That will not happen. We want to know who allowed the sale of that gun that murdered our son. Any help will [be] appreciated. We are the victims of this case and we want some answers. ”
February 10th, 2011 on 6:25 pm
Sipsey Street is a great source ! They have had all of the letters back and forth from Grassley and DOJ. Today Grassley unloaded on Holder with 24 pages of documentation about exactly who bought what guns…..posted Grassley’s statements to Holder and a link to the whole document package.
Grassley made this point “ The Terry family deserves answers. The whistleblowers have expressed a desire to honor Agent Terry’s memory by disclosing this information. The Justice Department should work to do the same. The best way to honor his memory is to come clean.”
February 10th, 2011 on 7:09 am
ATF tracing docs released by Grassleys office and are posted at the Sipsseystreet link at the bottom of Hugh’s article above…
February 10th, 2011 on 8:28 am
So….. where is the pro gun control crowd?
The usual suspects are curiously absent…… 8^)
How does this newly released info affect the “iron river” of guns to Mexico debate?
Here come the crickets…..”chirp, chirp”
February 10th, 2011 on 8:38 am
where is the pro gun control crowd?
I may be a “usual suspect”; I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t favor gun control. I favor reactionary gun-nut control.
February 10th, 2011 on 9:24 am
” I favor reactionary gun-nut control. ”
What exactly does that mean?
What do you propose?
February 10th, 2011 on 3:23 pm
Well Lefty,
Watcha got instore for us?
February 10th, 2011 on 3:40 pm
Are you self-identifying as a “reactionary gun-nut”?
It means essentially the same thing as saying I support the “right to arm bears” – not much in terms of actions; more of a position statement. Not to worry, I think gun control is currently a dead issue. There will be lots of talk, but no action can take place in the current environment.
February 10th, 2011 on 8:36 am
If this really heads the way it is seeming to at this juncture, it is clear that your government did not learn much from the mess surrounding the death of that former football player in Afghanistan. Then again, maybe they did. It seems to me that the cover-up surrounding that death made little impact on a nation consumed by the antics on “Dancing With The Stars”.
February 10th, 2011 on 10:34 am
The gun probably came from where 93% of the guns in Mexico come from:
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth
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According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.
This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.
The remaining 22,800 firearms seized by Mexican authorities in 2008 were not traced for a variety of reasons. In addition to factors such as bureaucratic barriers and negligence, many of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities either do not bear serial numbers or have had their serial numbers altered or obliterated. It is also important to understand that the Mexican authorities simply don’t bother to submit some classes of weapons to the ATF for tracing. Such weapons include firearms they identify as coming from their own military or police forces, or guns that they can trace back themselves as being sold through the Mexican Defense Department’s Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). Likewise, they do not ask ATF to trace military ordnance from third countries like the South Korean fragmentation grenades commonly used in cartel attacks.
Of course, some or even many of the 22,800 firearms the Mexicans did not submit to ATF for tracing may have originated in the United States. But according to the figures presented by the GAO, there is no evidence to support the assertion that 90 percent of the guns used by the Mexican cartels come from the United States — especially when not even 50 percent of those that were submitted for tracing were ultimately found to be of U.S. origin.
Read more: Mexico’s Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | STRATFOR “